MSXVR available for pre-order

MSXVR available for pre-order

by PAC on 11-09-2019, 02:33
Обсуждение: Hardware
Языки:

:::: New date limit to make pre-orders: October 31st, 2019 ::::

It took years of dedication and hard work, but it is finally here. The MSXVR, a computer compatible on hardware and software level with the MSX standard. This new MSX machine comes as a complete clone, including a mechanical keyboard and in different colors. Now available as pre-order.

This new MSX beast is based on a Raspberry PI 3B+ platform plus additional hardware. It was designed to have that real MSX look and feel experience. The thing sure looks like a regular MSX that just left the factory, already impressive. It is a complete piece of hardware with keyboard, LEDs, buttons, mouse/joystick port and what have you. It is fully compatibility with all MSX generations as well as extensions like MSX-MUSIC, SCC, MSX-AUDIO, OPL4 and V9990. Altho RCA is the old-skool method, there's HDMI to connect it to your modern tv/monitor as well.

The MSXVR will be delivered in a cardboard box, further enhancing that magical experience of having a new MSX in your hands. It's a treat. It comes in customizable design and is CE compliant.

The technical specifications are as

  • CPU 1,4Ghz - 64 bits - Quad Core
  • Memory 1 Gb (RAM/VRAM shared)
  • Max. video resolution 1920x1080x32bits - 1080p (60Hz)
  • HDMI audio-video out
  • Stereo RCA audio out
  • Composite video out
  • (3.5) stereo jack audio out
  • 2 DB9 MSX compatible game ports
  • 4 (50 pin) cartridge slots - MSX compatible
  • internal 16Gb SD card
  • Wifi
  • Bluetooth / hardware: YES, Software: NO (license pending)
  • Ethernet port
  • DB37-IO Interface
  • Power / Reset / VCC / Pause buttons
  • 9 LED (power + 8-User)
  • 4 USB 2.0 ports
  • PSU included (12V/10A - 100-240V - 50/60Hz)
  • Internal voltages 3.3V, 5V, +12V, -12V
  • Power switch
  • Power ON/OFF
  • (2.5) remote jack
  • Ext-keyboard port
  • Audio mixer slot
  • (3.5) microphone jack
  • CSI/DSI connector
  • Integrated mechanical keyboard - Standard 87 Keys
  • Software OS + Apps + Tools + VRBasic + VRDOS + VMachines + Online updates

From September, 6th 2019 to October, 31st 2019, the pre-orders can be made through MSXVR site (application form) and the final price is € 399.99.

Relevant links:
MSXVR - pre-order process
User based FAQ thread in this forum.

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Комментарии (137)

By Spider

Resident (45)

Аватар пользователя Spider

11-09-2019, 06:13

Raspberry Pi 3B + mechanical keyboard + physical slots + software emulation....
Am I missing anything?

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

11-09-2019, 06:58

Spider, maybe you can do it...

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

11-09-2019, 06:59

There's a great work.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

11-09-2019, 07:39

@PAC, you have missed quite a few things in the newspost: package contents, design (case, keyboard, CE marking,...), customization,... Not the best way to inform of such unique and professional product with so much hard work behind I would say...

Ordered one anyway! Cool

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

11-09-2019, 07:53

Thank you Ivan for helping to complete this important facts. You are very welcome to submit a newspost by yourself, now that you proofed your skilles to investigate.
And thanks to PAC for publishing this news so fast.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

11-09-2019, 07:55

Great news! Nice and compact machine. Maybe the most complete way of MSXing.

By Takamichi

Master (253)

Аватар пользователя Takamichi

11-09-2019, 08:00

Filled the application form and sent. According to my understanding, most countries are exempted from Spanish VAT so the VATless price 330.57 euro applies, right? (I'm Asian) Lack of numeric keyboard can be supplemented by external one. Smile

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

11-09-2019, 08:16

hamlet wrote:

Thank you Ivan for helping to complete this important facts. You are very welcome to submit a newspost by yourself, now that you proofed your skilles to investigate.
And thanks to PAC for publishing this news so fast.

It's not PAC's fault nor yours nor mine. The MSXVR team itself should have posted the news, imho.

By knm1983

Champion (349)

Аватар пользователя knm1983

11-09-2019, 08:22

Spider please read a complete information here.
https://msxvr.blogspot.com/p/info-en.html?m=1
It’s not only a RaspPi with mechanical Keyboard and slots.

Thanks to all team for this great work.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

11-09-2019, 08:30

knm1983 wrote:

Spider please read a complete information here.
https://msxvr.blogspot.com/p/info-en.html?m=1
It’s not only a RaspPi with mechanical Keyboard and slots.

Thanks to all team for this great work.

Indeed, this is not a Raspberry Pi inside a shoe box, it is a lot more than that.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

11-09-2019, 08:39

Btw, what are your case/keyboard colour preferences? I will probably choose the case in black with black/grey keyboard (or maybe the whole keyboard in black).

By Thom

Hero (582)

Аватар пользователя Thom

11-09-2019, 08:43

Takamichi wrote:

Filled the application form and sent. According to my understanding, most countries are exempted from Spanish VAT so the VATless price 330.57 euro applies, right? (I'm Asian) Lack of numeric keyboard can be supplemented by external one. Smile

That only applies to companies, I guess?

By Takamichi

Master (253)

Аватар пользователя Takamichi

11-09-2019, 10:31

Thom wrote:
Takamichi wrote:

Filled the application form and sent. According to my understanding, most countries are exempted from Spanish VAT so the VATless price 330.57 euro applies, right? (I'm Asian) Lack of numeric keyboard can be supplemented by external one. Smile

That only applies to companies, I guess?

Theoretically VAT can be exempted when exporting anything from EU to outside, but you have to make application to do so. Some export companies do that. Try throwing something into a cart at Thomann website then change the "Shipping to" destination to a non-EU country then VAT is automatically deducted. I don't know how to really manage that though.

By Latok

msx guru (3685)

Аватар пользователя Latok

11-09-2019, 11:05

Are there pictures and videos which show the actual machine? So no rendered images of the hardware and videos of the screen. I know there are plenty of those. What I'd like to see is the real hardware. The real casing. The real books.... Could you please make images and videos of those? Thank you Smile

By AbrahamCas

Expert (76)

Аватар пользователя AbrahamCas

11-09-2019, 11:08

Great project, i´ve just ordered mine in red with grey/black keyboard.

It is a greatfull effort to build a new MSX computer, yes they use a raspi as brain but it isnt just a raspberry running retropie or similar and connect a mechanical keyboard. On hardware hand It implements a complete board with 4 slots and the management of clock, voltages, peripherals, leds, buttons,etc... On the software hand they have depeloped their own software(VRDOS,VRBASIC,VRSCRIPT for easely create new programs, etc..). All it with warranties, european seals of safety and quality and the aproval of Mr Nishi. All made in a small scale production with the risks it represents.

All my support for this project and good luck!! Cool

By Ramon Ribas Casasayas

Supporter (1)

Аватар пользователя Ramon Ribas Casasayas

11-09-2019, 12:25

Hello Taka (and by extension Thom)

As far as I know, all the residents/companies outside EU should pay net price, without VAT. Another issue are the applied taxes when the goods are introduced in that country.
When it comes to EU nationals, VAT is that of the selling country.
When it is a company that buys the item, within the same country they can deduct if the purchase is related to the activity of the company. All this at the quarterly VAT declaration.
If it is a UE company purchasing at another EU country, and they have the VAT number registered at VIES, you deduct VAT automatically.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1303)

Аватар пользователя Kai Magazine

11-09-2019, 12:44

Finally it's here!
Pre-order placed.

I (as many other people) have seen this machine working in person in various stages of development at Spanish fairs.
Anyway you can see some videos from that official info page in which they are using the device.
This video for example:

video from the msxvr page

I hope they sell many hundreds of units.
Good job and good luck!

By Meits

Scribe (5532)

Аватар пользователя Meits

11-09-2019, 12:46

I'd like to know what slot numbers those 4 slots are. Is that information available somewhere? Could it be 1-0, 1-1, 2-0 and 2-1? I can imagine a 1-0 and 2-0 have to be available. And what would a slot expander do in any of these slots?

By Latok

msx guru (3685)

Аватар пользователя Latok

11-09-2019, 13:23

Kai Magazine wrote:

Finally it's here!
Pre-order placed.

I (as many other people) have seen this machine working in person in various stages of development at Spanish fairs.
Anyway you can see some videos from that official info page in which they are using the device.
This video for example:

video from the msxvr page

The computer in that video has a different layout than the rendered image you see at the pre order page. Why?

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1303)

Аватар пользователя Kai Magazine

11-09-2019, 13:53

They have designed and tried a number of casings over the years.
My guess is the final casing differs from the one used in the prototype because they re-designed it once again.

By journey

Champion (370)

Аватар пользователя journey

11-09-2019, 14:22

AbrahamCas wrote:

Great project, i´ve just ordered mine in red with grey/black keyboard.

You've already received the email where to choose the color?

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

11-09-2019, 14:54

Spider wrote:

Raspberry Pi 3B + mechanical keyboard + physical slots + software emulation....
Am I missing anything?

Blah blah blah....
I want mine NOW! Big smile

By Takamichi

Master (253)

Аватар пользователя Takamichi

11-09-2019, 15:05

@Kai Magazine: I saw your Myths and Dragons demo on MSXVR Big smile

I received the reconfirmation email. I was right, I didn't have to pay the VAT! Smile And right now I only had to pay certain percentage of the full price.

By ro

Guardian (4118)

Аватар пользователя ro

11-09-2019, 15:08

mechanical keyboard /w blue cherry switches for the win !

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1303)

Аватар пользователя Kai Magazine

11-09-2019, 15:37

Takamichi wrote:

@Kai Magazine: I saw your Myths and Dragons demo on MSXVR Big smile

Yes, Myths and Dragons and Life on Earth work correctly on msxVR, even on msx2 and 2+ modes! I have seen it myself Smile
Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By santiontanon

Paladin (833)

Аватар пользователя santiontanon

11-09-2019, 15:39

@Latok, yeah, there are lots of videos of the actual hardware! Just go check the Youtube channel of the creators, and you can see many videos showing the different prototypes. I understand the models shown on the latest videos correspond (or are very close) to the final product. It's pretty cool!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeSLSJ9KfbI6oR2hoq_NXCw/videos

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

11-09-2019, 20:46

Kai Magazine wrote:

Finally it's here!
Pre-order placed.

I (as many other people) have seen this machine working in person in various stages of development at Spanish fairs.
Anyway you can see some videos from that official info page in which they are using the device.
This video for example:

video from the msxvr page
Hi! Alberto. I'm happy to see just you're interested in the MsxVR. Only God knows all you can make
With this computer.
Good job and good luck!

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

11-09-2019, 20:49

Sorry I'm a little mixed up with the "quotes" oO

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

11-09-2019, 22:48

I like very much the red one.
One for me!

By DRomero

Expert (103)

Аватар пользователя DRomero

11-09-2019, 22:49

Fantastic piece of hardware! Ordered mine as well, black case with grey/black keys Smile

By konamiman

Paragon (1044)

Аватар пользователя konamiman

12-09-2019, 09:59

Regardless of whether you consider MSXVR to be the next generation MSX we were waiting for or the most sophisticated MSX emulator ever made, it's a really amazing project! Smile

By karloch

Prophet (2065)

Аватар пользователя karloch

12-09-2019, 11:23

I do not understand people complaining about the Raspberry Pi or emulation; I think using a Pi is a very smart decision, so they do not have to reinvent the wheel in terms of computing capability -not to mention how this lowers the costs of the solution-, and they can focus their efforts on the surrounding hardware that renders the MSX feel.

By the way and if I recall correctly, it was blessed by Nishi via konamiman, so that should finish any discussion about the project being amazing or not Tongue

I have pre-ordered mine Smile

By Grauw

Ascended (8451)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

12-09-2019, 12:16

Is the OS / emulator open source?

By AbrahamCas

Expert (76)

Аватар пользователя AbrahamCas

12-09-2019, 13:39

Hi!,
Yes, i've received first mail for choosing parameters and explaining the payment, etc.... and when i paid i received confirmation of my preferences and personal data.
Regards Cool

By journey

Champion (370)

Аватар пользователя journey

12-09-2019, 14:03

AbrahamCas wrote:

Hi!,
Yes, i've received first mail for choosing parameters and explaining the payment, etc.... and when i paid i received confirmation of my preferences and personal data.
Regards Cool

Same for me now! thanx! Cool

By Parn

Champion (418)

Аватар пользователя Parn

12-09-2019, 15:44

I don't want to sound like a basher, but I'm kind of skeptical about emulation performance when using max emulated specs, like turboR with V9990 and OPL4. I'm also curious about what parts of this are open source. Are the OS and emulator open source? Are they based on open source projects like Linux and OpenMSX? Nevertheless, I think this is the closer anyone has ever gotten to what could be a "philosophically correct" new MSX model, so I wish them success.

By PhilipsMSX

Supporter (13)

Аватар пользователя PhilipsMSX

12-09-2019, 16:02

Of course I thought a real computer NEW MSX of a real brand. But can we consider this project as reliable and interesting?
Sounds serious (although a lot in Spanish, and how to use?)
https://msxvr.blogspot.com/
Although owning a Panasonic MSX Turbo-R FS-A1GT, I am super pleased with all the initiatives since 1995 to make Hardware. I unfortunately missed the MSXPC made in Japan. (Sad)
I have a question a little stupid perhaps for this computer: Who would not have any more of MSX software at home, can buy this computer and operate (via internet access) for example File-Hunter or WebMSX? Or, download games (from PC) and then run them on this computer?
Thank you for your clarification (since indeed 2 friends who sold everything on MSX, could buy it but they have more games).

When we watch videos with this MSXVR we have the impression that it is idling (music games) I wonder if It's in real speed 60hz or if like between 1986 and 1990 I got caught with my Philips in 50hz ...

By ren

Paragon (1225)

Аватар пользователя ren

12-09-2019, 17:13

Congrats to the team reaching this stage.

Quite curious how it will compare w/ real hw & the FPGA solutions (compatibility, input latency, sound quality etc.)

One thing though: I don't see openMSX mentioned anywhere, isn't that what the emulation core is based upon?

In how far is your core compatible still with 'upstream' openMSX?
Is there perhaps some code / work done openMSX could benefit from, which might find it's way to the repository at some point?

By ro

Guardian (4118)

Аватар пользователя ro

12-09-2019, 17:59

By Samor

Paragon (2029)

Аватар пользователя Samor

12-09-2019, 19:30

Incredibly ambitious project. I wonder what the emulation is based on. The keyboard looks very nice.

*I'm watching the presentation video now and it seems to be bluemsx based, but with some implementations taken from openMSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUCToyYcyzY

By Hydragon

Paladin (694)

Аватар пользователя Hydragon

12-09-2019, 19:51

First congratulations on the progress and the stage you are in.
399,99 euro, considering it's not even a real MSX and it will never get to that point, it's in my opinion very much overpriced.
I would rather buy some real MSX's for that money.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

12-09-2019, 20:44

Hydragon wrote:

First congratulations on the progress and the stage you are in.
399,99 euro, considering it's not even a real MSX and it will never get to that point, it's in my opinion very much overpriced.
I would rather buy some real MSX's for that money.

Actually it is very cheap. Buy a TurboR (not new of course) fully loaded (slot expander, RAM expansion, MoonSound, GFX9000,...) and then tell me the total price.

For those who say it is an emulator I have never been able to plug any MSX real hardware into my "econobox" PC running openMSX, BlueMSX, fMSX, RuMSX, etc. Those MSX cartridges do not fit into the PCI slots... Tongue

By Hydragon

Paladin (694)

Аватар пользователя Hydragon

12-09-2019, 20:56

Ivan wrote:

Actually it is very cheap. Buy a TurboR (not new of course) fully loaded (slot expander, RAM expansion, MoonSound, GFX9000,...) and then tell me the total price.

For those who say it is an emulator I have never been able to plug any MSX real hardware into my "econobox" PC running openMSX, BlueMSX, fMSX, RuMSX, etc. Those MSX cartridges do not fit into the PCI slots... Tongue

I would rather have all the different items, ow wait a min, allready got most of it along with plenty machines at home.
And I do recall there used to be an MSX Player with a Game Reader Wink It's just that current emulators as far as I know are not capable yet, to support such device, maybe they will at some point, would be great though and an even cheaper solution for use Big smile

By Manuel

Ascended (15750)

Аватар пользователя Manuel

12-09-2019, 21:32

Samor wrote:

Incredibly ambitious project. I wonder what the emulation is based on. The keyboard looks very nice.

*I'm watching the presentation video now and it seems to be bluemsx based, but with some implementations taken from openMSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUCToyYcyzY

Alberto told me there is no openMSX code in it (anymore), due to problems adhering to the GPL. As blueMSX is also licensed under the GPL, it is probably also not based on blueMSX code (anymore). But Alberto can tell :)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1303)

Аватар пользователя Kai Magazine

12-09-2019, 21:39

Parn wrote:

I don't want to sound like a basher, but I'm kind of skeptical about emulation performance when using max emulated specs, like turboR with V9990 and OPL4.

You can put your mind at ease by watching this video which shows the VR running Myths and Dragons (v9990) with opl4 on Turbo R mode.

By psxdev

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя psxdev

12-09-2019, 22:31

Hydragon wrote:
Ivan wrote:

Actually it is very cheap. Buy a TurboR (not new of course) fully loaded (slot expander, RAM expansion, MoonSound, GFX9000,...) and then tell me the total price.

For those who say it is an emulator I have never been able to plug any MSX real hardware into my "econobox" PC running openMSX, BlueMSX, fMSX, RuMSX, etc. Those MSX cartridges do not fit into the PCI slots... Tongue

I would rather have all the different items, ow wait a min, allready got most of it along with plenty machines at home.
And I do recall there used to be an MSX Player with a Game Reader Wink It's just that current emulators as far as I know are not capable yet, to support such device, maybe they will at some point, would be great though and an even cheaper solution for use Big smile

Bluemsx has support for game reader but only on Windows 32 bit xp/2000 and it has some limitations because it is using propietary dll from msxplayer but i released a code a few days ago to use game reader under different unix/linux flavours using libusb. Check msxGameReader

Bluemsx support is on the way for my port for PlayStation 4, so add to vanilla bluemsx and openmsx is doable without propietary drivers

I am looking for a full open solution software/hardware if someone is interested to help can contact with me on Twitter @psxdev or directly on github repository

By psxdev

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя psxdev

12-09-2019, 22:36

Manuel wrote:
Samor wrote:

Incredibly ambitious project. I wonder what the emulation is based on. The keyboard looks very nice.

*I'm watching the presentation video now and it seems to be bluemsx based, but with some implementations taken from openMSX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUCToyYcyzY

Alberto told me there is no openMSX code in it (anymore), due to problems adhering to the GPL. As blueMSX is also licensed under the GPL, it is probably also not based on blueMSX code (anymore). But Alberto can tell :)

And if Alberto does not tell us we will know when we will analyze the binaries. I would like more an open solution for the community but he is free to choose a closed solution if he is compliant with license of libraries/projects that he is using on VR

By Parn

Champion (418)

Аватар пользователя Parn

12-09-2019, 22:36

Kai Magazine wrote:

You can put your mind at ease by watching this video which shows the VR running Myths and Dragons (v9990) with opl4 on Turbo R mode.

Oh, I didn't see this video before. Thank you, it's looking pretty good indeed. John Hassink's soundtrack sounds very impressive as well. :)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1303)

Аватар пользователя Kai Magazine

12-09-2019, 22:48

John hassink did an incredible job with the soundtrack of this game.

By Grauw

Ascended (8451)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

12-09-2019, 22:56

I was asking about open source because during software development I encounter emulation issues from time to time (both in software and FPGA), and if the source is open I can research the problem a bit myself which may hasten the fix, also I would still want to be able to get things fixed 5 or 10 years from now even if the developer has moved on, so I don't need to add workarounds.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

12-09-2019, 23:02

Obviously, a commercial product, which has cost many hours and a lot of money from the developer's pocket ... it is logical that it's not open source at least in the early years ^^
And yes...I think THIS is the real MSX3 Tongue
(Thanks Nishi for your bless Tongue )

By Latok

msx guru (3685)

Аватар пользователя Latok

12-09-2019, 23:33

How should we call Nishi his own MSX project then? Smile

By erpirao

Paladin (939)

Аватар пользователя erpirao

12-09-2019, 23:34

Latok wrote:

How should we call Nishi his own MSX project then? Smile

msx4

By Manuel

Ascended (15750)

Аватар пользователя Manuel

12-09-2019, 23:38

Pablibiris wrote:

Obviously, a commercial product, which has cost many hours and a lot of money from the developer's pocket ... it is logical that it's not open source at least in the early years ^^

Making it open source doesn't mean you will lose your money/investment...

What is the worst that could happen when open sourcing?
What is the best that could happen?
What do you expect will happen?

By Grauw

Ascended (8451)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

12-09-2019, 23:58

Pablibiris wrote:

Obviously, a commercial product, which has cost many hours and a lot of money from the developer's pocket ... it is logical that it's not open source at least in the early years ^^

I don’t agree with that reasoning at all. There is nothing obvious about it. The 1chipMSX was open source from the beginning (source and schematics were provided on the CD), and look how alive that platform is today, over a decade later. Owners of an original 1chipMSX can use many new features compared to the release and continue to receive updates despite the original developers not being involved. Not to mention the hardware still being available from several manufacturers (in the spirit of MSX Smile). Open source gives many benefits to the users. It is a great boon to any project. Only good will come of it.

Closed source projects going open source later in their lifetime, that usually only happens when the developer abandons the project, and those type of open source projects typically have a hard time taking off since there is no interest anymore.

By msxvr

Rookie (30)

Аватар пользователя msxvr

13-09-2019, 09:09

Yep! and I'm sorry .. I was a bit busy .. I will try to explain where the code of this computer comes:

- 1988 -> My first PHILIPS MSX VG-8020 .. Magical moment .. hundreds of fairies were born
- first MSX emulators appeared (fMSX, RuMSX, etc) ... I was trying to build my first MSX emulator too using the famous MSDOS-Protected mode and Borland C in VGA 256 colors .. it has rained since that day. I remind letters exchanged (real letters not Internet emails) with Daniel Zorita, famous MSX programmer in Spain, asking about VDP, etc. and he sent me my first V9938/58 and TurboR manuals.
- I collaborated too programming the SPC sound chip of an MSDOS SNES emulator (chanka's emulator)
- My first tries to make MSXBASIC compatible emulations with PSG, SCC, OPLL, Z80 and VDP9938
- 1998 -> I started my engine .. the engine that uses MSXVR internally ... TODAY: the emulation part of all this engine is 10% (I have calculated counting code lines of all the parts).
- 2006 -> MonsterHunter and MSXDev winner ... an increible MSXTurboR arrived at my home (my dream!) .. I would say it was the first MegaROM created in SDCC.
- 2012 -> MSXBASIC Simulator 5.0 - it seems the simulation was improved and it gives me ideas for the MSX3
- 2014 -> MSX3 presentation - all this MSXBASIC and programming and emulation focus in this MSX3 concept based in a software point of view and not hardware point of view.
- 2019 -> MSXVR preorder

Well .. I need to clarify .. all my MSX investment during this 30 years in terms of learning and discovering information are from: webs, datasheets, friends and the emulators: fMSX and BlueMSX.
BlueMSX visual studio gaves me the possibilty of learning, debugging and compare with logging some devices and of course, I have eyes and I know from up to down the BlueMSX code but my code was born before than BlueMSX and furthermore is C++. By the way ... Dvik you are a master!

Since 2 or 3 years ago .. I introduced V9990 + OPL4 in the emulation core .. all this part was directly from OpenMSX .. the OpenMSXTeam knows that .. I tried to arrive to some kind of agreement with them but (I respect 100% their decision) .. they told me that I should respect the GPL if I use their code. Well .. since some weeks ago I started my own V9990 + OPL4 core and I will need time to get a good emulation .. I hope to be a decent emulation at the began of the next year.

About other libraries used by the engine, all them are Free or LGPL, so a native DLL exists in the operating system.

I don't know if you can/want believe my words but I can't say another thing.

More over ... MSXVR Team will never recover in financial terms .. I can sure you .. never in 1000 lives ... the time, efforts, suffering, time to enjoy with the family against to be in front of the computer ... never ... and the risk exposed to create, product and finally offering this product ... sometimes I stop and I think ... you are idiot Alberto .. because my motivation .. my energies .. absolutly 100% of all this .. and I don't know how is possible .. are motivated by the MSX ... just a three letters .. incredible ...mmm.. well .. I'm sorry ... I am just fallen in a drama TV serie moment Smile

I hope all this amount of words will be useful for something. Many thanks to all the people that support my work and specially the MSXVR ... this days have been really magic for me .. I hope really that we can pass the preorder stage and the MSXVR will come a reality. I love you!

Best Regards,
Alberto

By raymond

Champion (387)

Аватар пользователя raymond

13-09-2019, 10:02

I made a news submit to a popular Dutch tech website called Tweakers. They have made a news article about the MSXVR on Tweakers.

By MVARELA

Champion (335)

Аватар пользователя MVARELA

13-09-2019, 10:06

Made in Spain...Spain rules!

1 Red for me.

By Grauw

Ascended (8451)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

13-09-2019, 11:18

Grauw wrote:

I was asking about open source because during software development I encounter emulation issues from time to time (both in software and FPGA), and if the source is open I can research the problem a bit myself which may hasten the fix, also I would still want to be able to get things fixed 5 or 10 years from now even if the developer has moved on, so I don't need to add workarounds.

So I think the answer is no, it is not open source?

That’s a shame. If users report issues in my software on the MSXVR I will redirect them to you.

The machine looks astounding btw Smile.

By msxvr

Rookie (30)

Аватар пользователя msxvr

13-09-2019, 11:33

I would want to share some parts of the project because obviously .. I think is good for the project and I know there are a lot of good programmers there. But I need to do in private way .. SVN repo and showing things and hidding another things, just that .. some control over the code.

By Thom

Hero (582)

Аватар пользователя Thom

13-09-2019, 12:40

I've ordered one (Am I the first from The Netherlands?). Red case, gray/black keyboard.

MSXVR seems to be the only device so far which has all the things I want:
1) Built-in tools to be able to toy around with the MSX (that's what made MSX stand out in the first place)
2) HDMI (no need to buy an OSSC)
3) Integrated keyboard, so it's really a stand alone device

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (869)

Аватар пользователя DarkSchneider

13-09-2019, 13:12

I like it because that's exactly what I had in mind about if MSX would continue, a low-cost ARM based computer with good software for learning. Also compatible with old software by almost perfect (we assume perfection is not probable) emulation , and old hardware as extra, as probably on current MSX (year 2019) it wouldn't be included by default but as extra (external device).

Then, I understand the great investment effort in many ways, so I am fine with the closed solution. By this the MSXVR cannot be considered a new MSX because it breaks the main rule, open architecture, but anyway it can be used like a computer, and is a solution to have a full TurboR machine plenty of devices into one single device.

But, I ask, once the sales down, so it is not even profitable because the taxes, this is, it gives you less than the spanish SMI, plus paying the RETA, have you though about doing it open from that moment? By that way it could become a new MSX standard.

By Parn

Champion (418)

Аватар пользователя Parn

13-09-2019, 15:03

msxvr wrote:

I hope all this amount of words will be useful for something. Many thanks to all the people that support my work and specially the MSXVR ... this days have been really magic for me .. I hope really that we can pass the preorder stage and the MSXVR will come a reality. I love you!

Of course your words won't go to waste. I think it's not an exaggeration to say the release of this product will enter MSX history, since it's the first complete MSX-like computer made from top to bottom by enthusiasts. Your words will be recorded into history as well.

This system's phylosophy is very close to what I came to believe as a true MSX successor. It's not exactly what I dreamt, of course, but close. Personally I'm a bit more interested by the hardware side of things (mechanical keyboard, handsome MSX-like unit, Raspberry Pi-based), and it's kind of inexpensive for all it comes with. Wishing lots of success.

By Manuel

Ascended (15750)

Аватар пользователя Manuel

13-09-2019, 21:16

DarkSchneider wrote:

Then, I understand the great investment effort in many ways, so I am fine with the closed solution

So, you think that all open solutions did not involve "big investments effort in many ways"?

msxvr wrote:

I would want to share some parts of the project because obviously .. I think is good for the project and I know there are a lot of good programmers there. But I need to do in private way .. SVN repo and showing things and hidding another things, just that .. some control over the code.

What is the advantage of the private way?
What would you like to hide?
What kind of control do you need and why do you think you would have no control?
What are you afraid of?

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

13-09-2019, 22:39

/edit/
Nah, forget it Smile

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

14-09-2019, 02:09

Is the developer and he can do what he wants with his product.
That's all.
The GR8Net is a closed project and I haven't heard anyone complain about it......(an example among many others)

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

14-09-2019, 09:35

I haven't paid much attention to the keyboard chosen for the MSXVR but it seems that the Cherry MX is probably the best option out there (and they are not inexpensive).

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

14-09-2019, 09:56

MVARELA wrote:

Made in Spain...Spain rules!

1 Red for me.

Yeah but I'm not sure that all members of the MSXVR team are Spanish. If I remember correctly there were 1 or 2 Dutch guys next to Alberto at a users' meeting.

By msxtrd

Master (209)

Аватар пользователя msxtrd

14-09-2019, 12:34

How much in prepayment, and when the rest must be paid?

By Sebbeug

Master (228)

Аватар пользователя Sebbeug

14-09-2019, 12:36

The dictatorship of open source... Paradoxical...

As lot of MSX fans, i followed this projet from start.
Today it's reality, so i applause, i pay and that's all !

I'm a little dev on my free time, and when i decide to keep original code for myself, then it's just a problem between me and me.

GREAT JOB Alberto... Respect !

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

14-09-2019, 13:01

Sebbeug wrote:

The dictatorship of open source... Paradoxical...

As lot of MSX fans, i followed this projet from start.
Today it's reality, so i applause, i pay and that's all !

I'm a little dev on my free time, and when i decide to keep original code for myself, then it's just a problem between me and me.

GREAT JOB Alberto... Respect !

Respect

By Grauw

Ascended (8451)

Аватар пользователя Grauw

14-09-2019, 13:33

Why do you say dictatorship when I just ask a question and indicate my preference and reasons?

It may not be important for you but for me it is when it concerns a new MSX type, and it was not mentioned anywhere in the article, so that’s why I asked. No need to get all defensive about it.

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

14-09-2019, 13:37

Grauw wrote:

Why do you say dictatorship when I just ask a question and indicate my preference and reasons?

It may not be important for you but for me it is when it concerns a new MSX type, and it was not mentioned anywhere in the article, so that’s why I asked. No need to get all defensive about it.

I think they are responding to Manuel's post, not yours.

By Sebbeug

Master (228)

Аватар пользователя Sebbeug

14-09-2019, 14:53

Exactly Smile

By raymond

Champion (387)

Аватар пользователя raymond

15-09-2019, 13:53

Tried to pre-order, however I get an error message:

Error - Your preorder has not been started. Please, try again. Thank you!

Furthermore, how many pre-orders are necessary to be able to start the production? And when are the first MSXVR machines going to be delivered?

By Thom

Hero (582)

Аватар пользователя Thom

15-09-2019, 15:26

raymond wrote:

Tried to pre-order, however I get an error message:

Error - Your preorder has not been started. Please, try again. Thank you!

I got the same message over and over again. So I sent the information via e-mail (preorder@msxvr.com) and within a couple of hours they contacted me.

By konamiman

Paragon (1044)

Аватар пользователя konamiman

15-09-2019, 17:41

raymond wrote:

Furthermore, how many pre-orders are necessary to be able to start the production? And when are the first MSXVR machines going to be delivered?

According to the preorder confirmation email, the planned steps are:

1. Preorder (and first payment): until October 1st. Before this date it's possible to cancel a preorder and get a refund.
2. Second payment, including supplement for case color other than red if requested: November 1st. The amount of the supplement will depend on how many people wants each color. At least 10 requests of a given color are needed for it to be produced.
3. Third payment (shipping costs) and beginning of shipments: February 2020.

No information is available on how many preorders are needed to start production, but I guess that in October 1st we'll know if the goal has been achieved or not Smile

By RCastillo

Resident (38)

Аватар пользователя RCastillo

15-09-2019, 20:35

I made the first payment. I recognize that I am very excited to buy a MSX with high quality standards at this time Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By erpirao

Paladin (939)

Аватар пользователя erpirao

15-09-2019, 20:54

konamiman wrote:
raymond wrote:

Furthermore, how many pre-orders are necessary to be able to start the production? And when are the first MSXVR machines going to be delivered?

According to the preorder confirmation email, the planned steps are:

1. Preorder (and first payment): until October 1st. Before this date it's possible to cancel a preorder and get a refund.
2. Second payment, including supplement for case color other than red if requested: November 1st. The amount of the supplement will depend on how many people wants each color. At least 10 requests of a given color are needed for it to be produced.
3. Third payment (shipping costs) and beginning of shipments: February 2020.

No information is available on how many preorders are needed to start production, but I guess that in October 1st we'll know if the goal has been achieved or not Smile

and nishi who knows about this?
Have you talked to him lately?

By konamiman

Paragon (1044)

Аватар пользователя konamiman

16-09-2019, 10:08

More information is available: Alberto was the guest star on the AmigaWave podcast yesterday (in Spanish). He said that at least 350 preorders are needed to start production, and so far 300 people have preordered.

Quote:

and nishi who knows about this?
Have you talked to him lately?

He knows. In fact Alberto also said that he received an email from him saying that he was really impressed with the project and he wanted to buy one when available. That was one year ago, though (one day after I talked to him about the project), not sure if he remembers now.

I haven't been able to contact Mr. Nishi since I very painfully and indirectly got his ok for the Nextor license, also one year ago.

By MSX Calamar

Resident (59)

Аватар пользователя MSX Calamar

16-09-2019, 10:29

Great job, Alberto!
I have preordered one for me! Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By gaula82

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя gaula82

16-09-2019, 11:22

Wow, selling an emulator running on 35 Euros hardware on the free GNU/Linux OS for 400 Euros is quite an accomplishment. Better yet, a closed-source emulator! What could go wrong?? oO

Some people in this thread are about to learn a painful lesson... for a high price, that is.

Software emulators running on ANY operating system are bound to have loads on audio and video lag. Thats because of buffers. Buffers are unavoidable due to the inherent jittering present in those modern, multitasking OSes.
Its OK because most software emulators are free, so theres nothing to complain about: OpenMSX for example has needed MANY years to mature to the point its now, so all you will get with this MSXVR thing is either a poor emulator or a stolen OpenMSX/BlueMSX deployment in a 35 Euros computer for 400.
But hey! It has cartidge slots!! Yeah, but it can NOT access the cartidges in realtime as a real MSX or an FPGA implementation because the Pi buses have nothing in common with MSX. (FPGAs CAN access cartidges in realtime because they are an electronic-level implementation of the MSX hardware). So, in this MSXVR abortion, carts have to be dumped into ROMs in order to be used.

Thats all you will get: a very expensive cartidge dumper that plays ROMs on an obscure and half-baked emulator (or stolen, who knows since this POS will be closed-source).

Stay away from this shit. Use FREE and open-source emulators, or if you are a purist then go FPGA or real HW.
There are MANY options, its up to you. But dont let this people rip your money.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

16-09-2019, 13:48

@gaula82: It sounds like you're talking about a new Apple product! LOL!
Guys, please don't feed the troll!

By warmize

Rookie (31)

Аватар пользователя warmize

16-09-2019, 12:40

@gaula32 Seems that you have not read, heard or viewed nothing about MSXVR or you have a wrong idea about it. You are not the first nor the last in missunderstanding what MSXVR is. And it also seems that you think you are smarter than anyone else that has read, heard and viewed MSXVR stuff. You even have changed your nickname a while ago?
I have seen MSXVR working, asked a lot of questions (got all of them answered) and think very differently from you. For instance, MSX cartridges can be dumped BUT don't need to be dumped to be played. That's a big difference. About the emulator it has been widely explained how it has been developed.
Please, if you don't like something don't buy it. If you have questions just make them. But don't lie about something that you dislike or you are not interested in.
Smile

By gaula82

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя gaula82

16-09-2019, 12:54

@warmize: You dont give any technical explanation on why am I wrong on what I exposed (APIs, lag, closed-source development on GNU/Linux AKA tivolization, etc), just the same general mumbo-jumbo about how "cool" this MSXVR thing is. But the fact is that its just a poor MSX emulator on GNU/Linux running on a 35 Euros computer, trying to sell for 400 Euros. Nothing more, nothing less.
Well, you can prove I am wrong, cant you? Oh, you cant. Its just what I said.

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

16-09-2019, 14:03

@gaula82
Hmmm, no realtime access to the cartridge? Only ROM dumping & play?
Can you tell me how the 2nd part of this video works where he uses an Obsonet cart to connect to HispaMSX BBS?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgAwnABXOq0

So that is only the first thing where you are wrong.
For the rest: Yes, it's emulation. Yes, there will be lag & there will be flaws. 35 Euro's? Have you checked what other hardware goes inside that machine? Do you have any idea what it costs to make molds for plastic-injection? Or the keyboards? And since it's closed source, you have no clue on how good (or bad for that matter) the emulation is. Nor do I or anybody else btw.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not buying the device either since I already have a Zemmix-Neo on my desk which suits my needs. And I do wonder if Alberto has any idea on what he is getting himself into with the production of these machines and I really do hope everything works out well.

And if I didn't have my Zemmix-Neo, I even might have been tempted to buy the MSXVR. Sure, emulation will not be perfect. But it will probably be good enough for a lot of people.

By konamiman

Paragon (1044)

Аватар пользователя konamiman

16-09-2019, 13:35

@gaula32 Your concerns about the emulation accuracy/performance and the dangers inherent to the closed (code-wise) nature or the project might be legitimate. You might be right, or not. But what you can't do is coming here and start treating the project creators as if they were almost criminals.

There's plenty of information about MSXVR published in the project blog, and Alberto has spent countless hours answering any question he has received via email. There are Youtube videos showing a MSXVR at work, and several people have seen it working in MSX user meetings. You can't call this project a scam by any measure.

Did you notice any slowdown, any emulation inaccuracy or any other problem in any of the public demonstrations made (live or in YouTube)? Great, then please go ahead and point it to us. Do you have benchmarks, tech specs for the components used, or any other type of data to back your claims? Awesome, please share. But if all you have to say is "this shit is expensive and isn't going to work", then please don't say anything.

And of course, we are all adults and we're going to spend our money however we want, thanks.

By Thom

Hero (582)

Аватар пользователя Thom

16-09-2019, 14:08

I already have a rPi with Retroarch and blueMSX. Works fine. I finished the excellent game Night Knight using WebMSX in google Chrome on Windows 10. Not one single hiccup. OpenMSX is the best we've ever had, especially when developing software.

So, let's wait and see how good it is (or isn't). I don't think it's very motivating for people to create new things if all they are getting is testosterone-fuelled poetry.

By warmize

Rookie (31)

Аватар пользователя warmize

16-09-2019, 13:51

"FPGAs CAN access cartidges in realtime because they are an electronic-level implementation of the MSX hardware". Ok....have you even asked @msxvr how they do this work? Or you don't even mind? What's your opinion about the use of a PCB?
If someone ever builds a FPGA, can you say it would be perfect and bug free?

By gaula82

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя gaula82

16-09-2019, 13:59

@konamiman: It uses a Raspberry Pi to emulate an MSX computer in software. Specs of the Pi are everywhere to be seen. Its not about specs or speed, but selling a 35 Euros GNU/Linux machine for 400.
Its not about raw power either, its about inherent jittering, buffering and ultimately lag.
Its not about how good his privative emulator is: its just impossible to be any better than, lets say, OpenMSX, because a single person can NOT develop a good emulator (by todays standards) in a short time. Either his emulator sucks or he plans to use other peoples work.
There is no option: if its running on GNU/Linux (and it IS), theres only SDL1, SDL2 and RetroArch as the possible APIs. He is not using RetroArch, which leaves us with SDL1 and SDL2, both poor options for emulation because of the audio/video synchronization issues because of which libRetro was created in the first place.
Anyway, he is building his business on an opensource kernel, opensource libraries, and a small single board computer thats supposed to be very cheap. Awful.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

16-09-2019, 14:32

Every word you write leaves you more in evidence. If you had informed yourself, just a little, maybe could you speak coherently. Keep writing, it's fun to read how you're wrong with every sentence you write Smile

By gaula82

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя gaula82

16-09-2019, 14:42

@Pablibiris: Not like your comment, full of technical information that invalidates mine oO

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

16-09-2019, 14:54

gaula82 wrote:

@Pablibiris: Not like your comment, full of technical information that invalidates mine oO

@Gaula82,
Have you watched the video I mentioned above? Or did you just skip my message "accidentally"?

By gaula82

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя gaula82

16-09-2019, 15:23

@tfh: I have seen the Amigawave video. And even if actual information is scarce, it fits my comments perfectly: a private, closed, sucky emulator on GNU/Linux (which makes the use on the typical opensource libs mandatory unless he has implemented his own libs, which would be absurd anyway).

About the video you posted, I guess he is not accessing via MSX hardware in a cartidge slot from GNU/Linux, but using other means to access the BBS via the Pi ethernet port.

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

16-09-2019, 15:39

gaula82 wrote:

@tfh: I have seen the Amigawave video. And even if actual information is scarce, it fits my comments perfectly: a private, closed, sucky emulator on GNU/Linux (which makes the use on the typical opensource libs mandatory unless he has implemented his own libs, which would be absurd anyway).

About the video you posted, I guess he is not accessing via MSX hardware in a cartidge slot from GNU/Linux, but using other means to access the BBS via the Pi ethernet port.

Well, I suggest you look at the video again. In the first part he is accessing HispaMSX through the PI RJ45 interface. In the 2nd part he switches to using the Obsonet cartridge. The emulation core is using the hardware in the cartridge (Not just making a dump and loading this into the emulator.)

At the moment you seem to be the one making unfounded accusations and not being bothered by doing any real research. This is fine, but it just means that there really is no reason to continue this discussion with you.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

16-09-2019, 15:56

Don't feed the (ignorant) troll Big smile

By DrWh0

Paladin (767)

Аватар пользователя DrWh0

16-09-2019, 16:18

Hi guys Smile

I have some professional experience building hardware to know the real costs of manufacturing and problems that Alberto would had designing his hardware. So I think I have enough tecnhical and commercial background to support my opinion.

In spite of the aggresive ignorance showed by certain persons in some forums (not only in this one) I decided to stay silent until I had real facts and words directly from the manufacturer and official specsheet before giving my opinion about this controversy in this forum.

I would like to clarify I am not affiliated with Alberto or his software company (Nerlaska) in anyway, so I don´t have nothing to win or lose with my words.

In informal chats with people directly involved with Alberto, construction costs in basis at his numbers of units are almost identical to the ones I faced in my past experience, so can assure you that the cost is justified (in fact the cost/price tag is too narrow in my opinion for so low numbers).

After the interview a lot of things were clarified for people.

For non spanish speakers I will resume the confirmed facts said by Alberto del Hoyo himself in the interview of yesterday:

* Real time access to all cartridges slots and connectors, no matter what kind of hardware is:
* Demostrations were showed with:
- Robotic arm
- MSX printer
- Network cards
- Games
- Game with V9990 and moonsound
* Confirmed but not showed: Disk Controllers, modems, etc
* New generation language for exclusive "MSX-VR only" games
* Programming tools for old MSX games, dual and VR exclusives
* Real time debugger tools (he showed cheat capabilities for games)
* New software enviorement made by him and very well tested
* For games will be two selectable modes: Realtime (default) and indirect (Dump & Play mode)
* They tested more than 500 cartridges and all worked 100% perfect
* Quality ABS hard plastic, full EU compilant (in fact better than our MSXs)
* Quality Cherry switches keyboard (no numeric pad integrated but is supported)
* Raspberri alone IS NOT ABLE to real access time to msx slots due to physical gpio limitations so a full board had to be built
* Commercial quality packaging and books/manuals
* Licensed roms for classic MSX
* Cores for CPC, Spectrum and C64 (this one is currently being improved) (those modes were not tested in the interview)
* Replaceable Pi with another hardware fully upgradable
* Custom Board with classical and new connectors, the Pi in fact is used as manager of MSX Engine, is not the core
* Audio with full real stereo sound
* Full 2 years warranty
* 100% EU Hardware compilant

The people asked in the chat in real-time all their doubts about the machine (me included) and 99% of questions were asked with rotund "yes" to all funcionlaties.

So in conclusion:

* Is not a cheap product
* Is not a "miserable" Pi running a "stolen" emulator with a poor cartridge adapter
* Has full warranty and full support
* Is a totally new product capable of replacing our broken MSX

Be aware that:

Due to the high costs of manufacturing a minimum of 300 units must be sold, so is possible that future batchs would be not available, he only garantees first batch.

I write this post in order to clarify the facts and if possible stop this kind of non productive discussion that goes to nothing positive so I don´t pretend to insult anyone only state the BIG difference between this project and previous ones.

Thanks for reading Smile

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

16-09-2019, 16:34

10 Print "(APPLAUSE)"
20 Goto 10

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

16-09-2019, 17:01

Thank you DrWh0 for the clarification on these subjects! I hope that this will end the discussions Hannibal

By sdsnatcher73

Hero (585)

Аватар пользователя sdsnatcher73

16-09-2019, 17:25

I for one am quite confident this will be a very capable product. I do hope that (in time) it will become more open on the software side. My main reasoning here is that there are so many capable developers still active in MSX and them being able to generate pull requests to improve upon MSXVR in days to come will ensure MSXVR's place on our tables and in our hearts.

I guess the main concern is with warranty. If everyone could build the MSXVR software set themselves and 'flash' it onto the MSXVR (or whatever process would be needed) and ending up with a bricked MSXVR because of this would not be favourable.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

16-09-2019, 18:48

DrWh0 wrote:

Due to the high costs of manufacturing a minimum of 300 units must be sold, so is possible that future batchs would be not available, he only garantees first batch.

If we are lucky enough (i.e. the minimum amount of pre-orders is reached for the first batch) we will see the MSXVR finally produced. Keep in mind that it is not going to be available forever, regardless of how many batches are run or units of the product are produced or sold (and we have good examples: 1chipMSX, Zemmix Neo,...).

So my advice to anyone interested in this unique piece of hardware is to grab one while you can...

By Latok

msx guru (3685)

Аватар пользователя Latok

16-09-2019, 18:51

I try to be positive and pre ordered mine, only to enjoy whatever ride is ahead of us Smile

By DRomero

Expert (103)

Аватар пользователя DRomero

16-09-2019, 20:11

So much trolls lately... Here, on Facebook and in more places. It seems some people are showing their true face.

There is no need to call MSXVR shit or being disrespectful at all, you are free to buy or not, also you are free to have an opinion, but always showing respect, this is a project with LOTS of work behind, there is no one ripping money here to anyone.

Good Lord...

By HermanitoII

Rookie (17)

Аватар пользователя HermanitoII

16-09-2019, 20:50

sdsnatcher73 wrote:

I guess the main concern is with warranty. If everyone could build the MSXVR software set themselves and 'flash' it onto the MSXVR (or whatever process would be needed) and ending up with a bricked MSXVR because of this would not be favourable.

That is one of the main reasons as Alberto de Hoyo said recently in ConexiónMSX podcast.

By Sebbeug

Master (228)

Аватар пользователя Sebbeug

16-09-2019, 20:54

DRomero wrote:

So much trolls lately... Here, on Facebook and in more places. It seems some people are showing their true face.

It's so true...

By sdsnatcher73

Hero (585)

Аватар пользователя sdsnatcher73

16-09-2019, 21:54

HermanitoII wrote:
sdsnatcher73 wrote:

I guess the main concern is with warranty. If everyone could build the MSXVR software set themselves and 'flash' it onto the MSXVR (or whatever process would be needed) and ending up with a bricked MSXVR because of this would not be favourable.

That is one of the main reasons as Alberto de Hoyo said recently in ConexiónMSX podcast.

That makes a lot of sense. It would still be nice if a way could be found to let developers work on MSXVR, maybe just by running it on a true Pi (with some limitations obviously) and test their code changes and create pull requests for the MSXVR team to incorporate into the MSXVR’s firmware. One could certainly improve and test the emulator core on a Pi. Well just thinking out loud here...

By AxelStone

Prophet (2691)

Аватар пользователя AxelStone

16-09-2019, 22:00

@gaula82 I honestly don't understand such hostility towards the project. Confusing MSXVR with an emulator running under RPi3 shows a very bird's eye view of the project.

The reality is that it is a very interesting piece of hardware, compatible at the accessory level with the MSX family, which is no small feat.

Does the VR use an RPi3 as central hardware? Of course, the VR uses it as MSX-Engine, a concept already present in real MSX models.

And let's not forget the extensive customization layer that translates into very practical tools for the developer.

So sorry but no, MSX-VR is not BlueMSX running on an RPi3.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

16-09-2019, 22:14

Gaula82, in other forums (using the nickname of Atreyu_ac), says that he is a specialist in the field. Poor boy ... he has no idea what he is talking about xD
But is funny Smile

By black hawk

Expert (82)

Аватар пользователя black hawk

17-09-2019, 00:56

Thanks Konamiman! No one is forced to buy the MSXVR. There is a lot of work behind this project, but there are people who do not understand that because they have no brain.

By gaula82

Rookie (29)

Аватар пользователя gaula82

17-09-2019, 13:38

@Pablibiris: I have never referred to myself as an specialist anywhere. But there are no more APIs on which an emulator can run on GNU/Linux: SDL1, SDL2, LibRetro. And I am involved in all them since I developed the underlying graphics drivers (DispmanX, which is the native Broadcom graphics API for SDL1 and LibRetro, KMS/DRM for SDL2) so all these three can run on a Raspberry Pi, so I know first hand what their limitations are. Thats all.
You chose to ignore my warnings and insult me instead, well, thats your decision. We will see if there is anybody talking about this MSXVR thing in a couple of years, with real HW, FPGA implemented MSX computers ruling the MSX HW scene as they deserve.

By Latok

msx guru (3685)

Аватар пользователя Latok

17-09-2019, 14:16

Maybe msxvr can respond to gaula82 his remarks. I find his postings quite constructive and I don't understand the strong reaction he gets.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

17-09-2019, 14:23

Curiously, how horrified the community reacts to a negative statement.
It is important to remain open-minded and tolerant. Questions and doubts are always justified. That is what I stand for, that is what our community stands for.
This does not happen on a relationship level, please remain objective and listen to each other. I am convinced that this will be a very constructive dialogue.

By Warchild

Paragon (1269)

Аватар пользователя Warchild

17-09-2019, 14:38

gaula82 wrote:

Wow, selling an emulator running on 35 Euros hardware on the free GNU/Linux OS for 400 Euros is quite an accomplishment. Better yet, a closed-source emulator! What could go wrong?? oO

Some people in this thread are about to learn a painful lesson... for a high price, that is.

Software emulators running on ANY operating system are bound to have loads on audio and video lag. Thats because of buffers. Buffers are unavoidable due to the inherent jittering present in those modern, multitasking OSes.
Its OK because most software emulators are free, so theres nothing to complain about: OpenMSX for example has needed MANY years to mature to the point its now, so all you will get with this MSXVR thing is either a poor emulator or a stolen OpenMSX/BlueMSX deployment in a 35 Euros computer for 400.
But hey! It has cartidge slots!! Yeah, but it can NOT access the cartidges in realtime as a real MSX or an FPGA implementation because the Pi buses have nothing in common with MSX. (FPGAs CAN access cartidges in realtime because they are an electronic-level implementation of the MSX hardware). So, in this MSXVR abortion, carts have to be dumped into ROMs in order to be used.

Thats all you will get: a very expensive cartidge dumper that plays ROMs on an obscure and half-baked emulator (or stolen, who knows since this POS will be closed-source).

Stay away from this shit. Use FREE and open-source emulators, or if you are a purist then go FPGA or real HW.
There are MANY options, its up to you. But dont let this people rip your money.

Because you can say things in a loooot different way? He doesn't have any doubt at all. What I'd like to know is what's his problem with people who simply likes this MSX-VR and want to spent that money on it? What he wrote first is what people reacted. Is my soul in danger if I order one? May the God of FPGA's make me burn in hell? Evil

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

17-09-2019, 14:37

Warchild, you are repeating statements you didn't stand for.
Please do not spread fire but stay on a professional level.

By Thom

Hero (582)

Аватар пользователя Thom

17-09-2019, 14:34

Criticism is always ok and can be helpful as well. However, if the tone of voice is foul-mouthed the message will not come across. Any constructive dialogue will die when words like "this shit", "don't let these people rip you off". In that respect, the strong reactions are logical. It happened before.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

17-09-2019, 14:38

I ask both sides to moderate their tone and treat each other respectfully.

By Warchild

Paragon (1269)

Аватар пользователя Warchild

17-09-2019, 14:46

Sorry hamlet, just surprised that his words were not received like a miss of respect, and not only to developers. That said, the technical and professional words are good for everyone. Something to learn is far better than something to hate.

By erpirao

Paladin (939)

Аватар пользователя erpirao

17-09-2019, 15:10

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

17-09-2019, 17:18

May the God of FPGA's make you burn in hell! Running Naked in a Field of Flowers
This make my day Warchild! Thanks!
This is a great time for our community. Hell, three MSX computer in one week.

So everyone will find a MSX that suits him.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

17-09-2019, 17:37

Fugly and expensive.

By Warchild

Paragon (1269)

Аватар пользователя Warchild

17-09-2019, 17:55

Yes hamlet!! First, to clarify: my message here was a response to Latok, who wondered about why those reactions... Not intended to make the wheel round again over this kind of conversation, but was my message and so my fault. I've read about the other hardware launching those days, and celebrate them too. In fact, as I stated in the mini SX-1 comments, I never liked this kind of developments because of lack of keyboard and console look. But I liked a lot this small size and it's my intention to get one. Have to wait, because I have to pay for a MSXVR now.

Hey! I'm just a plain user. Nothing that I can add to a technical conversation. And I never said FPGA based MSX is shit or a robbery if some one sell them just because I didn't liked it just for a keyboard or not to have this or those extension. No need of technical skills for like/unlike anything. Respect is something everyone has the skill for. From plain ignorant users to the greatest developers...

And about God Running Naked in a Field of Flowers and Hell Evil Wink just joking, because when people defend opinions in some extreme ways, it reminds some inquisition and obscure centuries oO That I think is something I can laugh about Wink

Now better stopping this, so we can read better and more informative comments here.

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

17-09-2019, 18:30

Warchild wrote:

I never liked this kind of developments because of lack of keyboard and console look.

+1

That's precisely why the MSXVR stands out from the rest of MSX compatible devices. Plus it is a professional product CE-compliant with a company behind and it even has the approval of the MSX Licensing Corporation.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

17-09-2019, 18:53

@Warchild That's right man! Smile

By Konamito

Paragon (1028)

Аватар пользователя Konamito

18-09-2019, 13:09

AxelStone wrote:

So sorry but no, MSX-VR is not BlueMSX running on an RPi3.

No more questions here. End of topic! Smile

By Latok

msx guru (3685)

Аватар пользователя Latok

18-09-2019, 13:53

On which API the emulator runs? Why there's a 10A psu? Why the computer looks different in the various videos and what's the definite model? How do the books look like? How does the packaging looks like? Images and videos of the internal hardware? Is all the promised software in release candidate phase?

Being in pre order stage and letting people pay 200 euros in advance for a 400 euros device, these are legit questions which deserve fair answers.

I understand all the fanboy-ism, I am enthusiastic myself as well and I pre ordered!

But generic remarks as 'I've seen it on a meeting', 'He has been working on it for years', 'Look at the site, there are videos there' and 'don't be negative' are not good enough.

If this project wants as many pre orders as it possibly can, it's important to give proper info and take away remaining doubts.

I am sure msxvr can do it Smile

By Meits

Scribe (5532)

Аватар пользователя Meits

18-09-2019, 15:05

My point exactly Latok. I'm still in doubt and leaning towards "let the first buyers tell their stories before I spend my cash on batch 2" (while there may as well be no second batch). For now I keep my hand on my wallet. However I do applaud the project very much.

By HermanitoII

Rookie (17)

Аватар пользователя HermanitoII

18-09-2019, 15:07

A idea could be to open a sticky post to solve all doubts about the proyect as the videos and podcasts may only be enough for spanish people.

I also preordered mine Tongue

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

18-09-2019, 16:50

That's quite a good idea to open a QA tread, Hermanitoll.
Here it is!

By DRomero

Expert (103)

Аватар пользователя DRomero

18-09-2019, 17:04

It's clear for me that MSXVR is a top quality product, the only complain some people have is it uses a RPI as a MSXEngine.

But for me at least, 330€ (70€ are taxes) for a professional plastic case, Cherry MX keys, 4 cartridge slots, internal hardware audio mixer, all standard MSX connections ports, Wifi & ethernet, more compatible than FPGA solutions, and capable of running original hardware & cartridges are well worth the price.

The debugger and included programming tools are a plus too.

Yeah, maybe I'm a fanboy but I clearly see much potential on this product, it will replace my Turbo R on my desktop for sure.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

18-09-2019, 17:12

I love this product and I do not complain about the money. All of my LEGO build MSX computer has been more expensive (even the one wit a RasPi inside Smile ). I'm just curious about the real thing. What, how, why. It's kinda anticipation.

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

18-09-2019, 17:20

One of my "problems" with MSXVR at the moment is that it doesn't boot as an MSX. One of the things that makes an MSX for me is that you switch it on and you are in MSX BASIC (Unless you have plugged in a cartridge or inserted a disc).
I could be wrong, but I think the MSXVR will boot into it's own OS and you need "to start the MSX" manually, unless (probably) if you make a batch-file that will make the MSXVR OS boot to MSX. But... I could be wrong here Smile
For me the MSX-SM with Turbo-R, V9990 & OPLL4 in a black MSXVR chassis would be the perfect MSX.
Still love the way the Black MSXVR (with gray/black keyboard) looks though. It's a very, very pretty machine which gives me that old-fashioned home-computer feeling.

By Pablibiris

Paragon (1765)

Аватар пользователя Pablibiris

18-09-2019, 18:26

tfh wrote:

One of my "problems" with MSXVR at the moment is that it doesn't boot as an MSX. One of the things that makes an MSX for me is that you switch it on and you are in MSX BASIC (Unless you have plugged in a cartridge or inserted a disc).
I could be wrong, but I think the MSXVR will boot into it's own OS and you need "to start the MSX" manually, unless (probably) if you make a batch-file that will make the MSXVR OS boot to MSX. But... I could be wrong here Smile

I remember that in a podcast talked about it, and the MSXVR can be configured to start as the user wishes Smile

By x1pepe

Expert (88)

Аватар пользователя x1pepe

18-09-2019, 20:31

Pablibiris wrote:
tfh wrote:

One of my "problems" with MSXVR at the moment is that it doesn't boot as an MSX. One of the things that makes an MSX for me is that you switch it on and you are in MSX BASIC (Unless you have plugged in a cartridge or inserted a disc).
I could be wrong, but I think the MSXVR will boot into it's own OS and you need "to start the MSX" manually, unless (probably) if you make a batch-file that will make the MSXVR OS boot to MSX. But... I could be wrong here Smile

I remember that in a podcast talked about it, and the MSXVR can be configured to start as the user wishes Smile

Exactly.

By hamlet

Scribe (2528)

Аватар пользователя hamlet

18-09-2019, 20:43

Open MSX in Sedai need less then 6 seconds to boot direct into MSX start screen. Regards to Vampier.

By tfh

Paragon (1811)

Аватар пользователя tfh

18-09-2019, 20:46

Pablibiris wrote:
tfh wrote:

One of my "problems" with MSXVR at the moment is that it doesn't boot as an MSX. One of the things that makes an MSX for me is that you switch it on and you are in MSX BASIC (Unless you have plugged in a cartridge or inserted a disc).
I could be wrong, but I think the MSXVR will boot into it's own OS and you need "to start the MSX" manually, unless (probably) if you make a batch-file that will make the MSXVR OS boot to MSX. But... I could be wrong here Smile

I remember that in a podcast talked about it, and the MSXVR can be configured to start as the user wishes Smile

Yes, but how does it go about?

* You switch on the machie and it goes to MSX BASIC
or
* You switch on the MSX VR -> it loads it's own MSX VR OS -> You make an "autoexec.bat" with MSX.COM -> It goes to BASIC

Because I can do that last thing on any PC as well.

By konamiman

Paragon (1044)

Аватар пользователя konamiman

19-09-2019, 08:36

Hey folks! Let's continue the discussion in the dedicated MSXVR Q&A forum thread, ok? :RNFF:

By Ivan

Ascended (9115)

Аватар пользователя Ivan

02-10-2019, 17:42

Please, update the newspost with the new date limit to make pre-orders: October 31st, 2019