Power Supply Replace

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By agnul75

Supporter (12)

Аватар пользователя agnul75

06-09-2016, 21:21

Thanks for the suggestions, tomorrow i make other tests and send a more foto of the board.

By Wierzbowsky

Guardian (3648)

Аватар пользователя Wierzbowsky

07-09-2016, 00:11

Could not find the schematics anywhere. The computer seems to hav 8x4164 and 2x4416 and all of them are 5v DRAMs. So there's no -5v on board. Maxis may be right about the switching PSU type. Those ICs can be transistors. It's better to see the markings on their cases. If they are not marked as 7805, 7912 and 7812, then those are not voltage regulators for sure. And then diagnostics needs to be different. But why call then IC then? Anyway, a close inspection of the board is needed.

By RetroTechie

Paragon (1563)

Аватар пользователя RetroTechie

07-09-2016, 02:50

Alexey wrote:

The computer seems to hav 8x4164 and 2x4416 and all of them are 5v DRAMs. So there's no -5v on board.

Looks like 8x 4116 to me... Wink Maybe there's a small zener diode or -5V regulator on the main board, or the 4116's are 5V-only types (yes those exist! Mostek MK4516 for example).

maxis wrote:

IMHO, +5V regulator on this board is not linear, but rather switched-mode.

Yep, maxis could be correct there. A regulator like 7805 would cause excessive losses with ~23V DC input. The way around that would be a separate transformer winding with lower AC voltage, but that doesn't seem to be used here.

So then you'd have a psu similar to the one in a Philips NMS8245, but with a single center-tapped transformer winding, and discrete components for the +5V switch mode circuit. I'll guess a bit more: D3 and D4 used in -12V circuit, D6 a big Schottky diode (one side connected to GND), that coil (next to VR8) connected between a switch transistor and +5V output, smaller coil (L2) maybe for some additional filtering on that +5V line. 7812, 7912 and a big PNP transistor or P-channel FET on that cooling block.

Please post silkscreen (pcb) markings for those parts on the cooling block as well, agnul75?

By maxis

Champion (512)

Аватар пользователя maxis

07-09-2016, 11:10

RetroTechie wrote:
maxis wrote:

IMHO, +5V regulator on this board is not linear, but rather switched-mode.

Yep, maxis could be correct there. A regulator like 7805 would cause excessive losses with ~23V DC input. The way around that would be a separate transformer winding with lower AC voltage, but that doesn't seem to be used here.

This is what I thought. 23->5 Volts with a 1.5A current is a bit something -> 30 Watts to dissipate. The computer will melt down.
So, the big inductor L1 is a primary inductor of a chopper (connected to the power transistor), and the small inductor and two capacitors form the PI filter.
Here I give a couple of examples of a similar 4-5 transistor regulators which I used long long time ago...

The one below I was using on my very first knock off back in 80s.

Here are a few examples with a similar classic topology. Also, two out of 4 of small signal transistors in Fenner's power supply can be organized in the differential pair to make an error amplifier (since there is no TL431 or any op-amp on the main board).
Hope this will help.

By Wierzbowsky

Guardian (3648)

Аватар пользователя Wierzbowsky

07-09-2016, 11:11

Hmm, I've seen a picture of the board with 2x4416 VRAM chips somewhere. But indeed there is a clone of 4116 on that Fennec board (8 of them).

By agnul75

Supporter (12)

Аватар пользователя agnul75

07-09-2016, 14:38

I'm a stubborn and i have tested the computer with another power supply and it works !
After i have read all post and the winner is tvalenca.
In the cartridge slot is missing the inhibitor switch !
I have closed the CN6 connector on the board and computer working with the original power supply.
Now i replace the inhibitor switch on the cartridge slot.
The plastic part are now in my washing maschine for deep cleaning.
"another msx saved from oblivion"

Thanks to ALL

By tvalenca

Paladin (747)

Аватар пользователя tvalenca

07-09-2016, 15:07

agnul75 wrote:

I'm a stubborn and i have tested the computer with another power supply and it works !
After i have read all post and the winner is tvalenca.
In the cartridge slot is missing the inhibitor switch !
I have closed the CN6 connector on the board and computer working with the original power supply.
Now i replace the inhibitor switch on the cartridge slot.
The plastic part are now in my washing maschine for deep cleaning.
"another msx saved from oblivion"

Thanks to ALL

First of all, kudos on saving it. I am glad that I helped.

the inhibit mechanism is part of the standard, and on earlier designs makers were more concerned on following the standard, I just connected the dots. Smile I also made this mistake on past, so...

anyway, the layout of this PSU is rather odd. I think our folks Maxis, Alexey and Retrotechie would be interested on more detailed pics from its board.

By Wierzbowsky

Guardian (3648)

Аватар пользователя Wierzbowsky

07-09-2016, 15:07

Congratz! That was an easy fix luckily. Smile

By maxis

Champion (512)

Аватар пользователя maxis

07-09-2016, 16:07

agnul75 wrote:

I have closed the CN6 connector on the board and computer working with the original power supply.

Great! Nevertheless consider checking and if necessary adjusting the +5V voltage with VR resistor.

tvalenca wrote:

I think our folks Maxis, Alexey and Retrotechie would be interested on more detailed pics from its board.

I'm very interested indeed. Simply never seen anything like that in western computers Wink

By agnul75

Supporter (12)

Аватар пользователя agnul75

07-09-2016, 17:48


It works

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