Best MSX2 game ever [gossip]

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Por BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

imagem de BiFi

20-06-2003, 09:30

I don't think Snatcher would be as popular as it is now without SD-Snatcher. We never knew about Snatcher without the Konami Game Collection Volumes, since these titles have support to use SCC when the Snatcher cartridge is inserted. And besides that we Europeans never really like(d) the game genre that much compared to action and RPG's, I think.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

23-06-2003, 00:11

Ok, maybe we're getting a little bit too evil here. Somehow I have the feeling that this third round is the breaking point for many games. My suggestion is as following.

Normally we would move on from 108 games to 4 (frontpage poll) like this:

108 - 54 - 28 - 14 - 8 - 4

I suggest however that we let 32 games move on to round #4. Then we'll get

108 - 54 - 32 - 16 - 8 - 4

Strictly spoken the first method is the most 'fair' and accurate, but the second method might give games that got a bad randomization a second chance.

My question is.. Does it really matter. In the first method there are one or two lucky games each round, just because we need an even amount of games moving on. In the second method no game will have such luck after round number 3. Which one do you prefer?

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

23-06-2003, 00:20

Personnally I prefer the second methode, because it'll give a "last chance" to only 4 games : it's just a little correction for the unmerciful randomization ! Tongue

Por mth

Champion (503)

imagem de mth

23-06-2003, 21:27

I just noticed the rating system where you let the upper half pass (as used in this poll) is equivalent to letting all the pair winners pass.


  • A voter casts exactly 3 points per pair, so one game gets 1.5 - X points and the other 1.5 + X, where X = 0.5 or 1.5.
  • If you average this for all voters, the same property holds for the average number of points: one game gets 1.5 - X, the other 1.5 + X (0 <= X <= 1.5). So for every pair, there is one game that has at most 1.5 points average and one game that has at least 1.5 points average.
  • When looking at all pairs, the number of games with at most 1.5 points will be equal to the number of games with at least 1.5 points. So if half the games go through, games with less than 1.5 points will never belong to the upper half and are therefore eliminated in this round.
  • So if a game gets more than 1.5 points, its pairwise opponent will be eliminated. A game gets more than 1.5 points average if it scores more points than its pairwise opponent. If they both score 1.5 points on average, it means they got exactly the same amount of points in the voting; this case is undecided.
  • If you have a voting system where the pairwise winner goes through, it is also the games with more points than its pairwise opponent goes through. And if they score equal, it is undecided. This is always exactly the same result as the voting system used for this poll, so the voting systems are equivalent.

So what does this tell us? When the top half makes it to the next round:

  • A strong opponent is a real threat, because only one of a pair goes through.
  • Snout can just calculate the winners of each pair, no need to calculate a total ranking.

When passing more than half the games (as proposed) :

  • A strong opponent is still a real threat, but if it's (almost) tied, both games can go through.
  • It is necessary to calculate the total ranking. It is certain each pairwise winner will go through, but a few pairwise losers will go through as well (unless there are a lot of ties).

As NOP once wrote:

Co-starring: mathematics as useful

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

23-06-2003, 21:45

however, when there are equals we'll look at how many points the game received in a previous round Smile

Por Manuel

Ascended (18247)

imagem de Manuel

29-06-2003, 16:01

I propose to quit after having about 6 left and put those on the front page poll! Smile

Por BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

imagem de BiFi

29-06-2003, 16:23

I think the resulting 8 should be on the front page battling it out...

Por Thom

Paladin (685)

imagem de Thom

29-06-2003, 16:43

I think the resulting 8 should be on the front page battling it out...

Might be a good idea, as the strategic voting becomes a nuisance.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

29-06-2003, 18:10

8 games in the frontpage poll, that sounds a bit over-the-top. I think no more than six should continue. Since we have 8 games now, that means 4 will end up on the frontpage poll.. which is on the low side (well, it's the minimum)... Hmmmzzzz Smile

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

29-06-2003, 22:10

Ok here's a thought that crossed my mind. I received two comments.

1) 4 games in the frontpage battle is too little
2) Pumpkin Adventure 3 should get a second chance

Now, I have been quite soft already in round 3 where extra games moved on to the next round. Personally, I think the rough kind of this poll makes it even more fun. However, I have considered running a sub-top poll that will add 2 extra games to round 6.

If there are no draws in round 6, 5 games will battle on the frontpage. In a highly unlikely case of a draw AND the same total scores over 6 rounds, 6 games will.

I did something similar in the MSX1 game poll and reactions were quite mixed, so I'm not sure if I should do this or not. The games that would get an extra chance are

Aleste 1
Dragon Slayer 4 (Drasle family)
Pumpkin Adventure 3
Xak 3 (Tower of Gazzel)

IF we go on with this, they will not enter the fifth round, but battle in a SEPARATE sub-top round. And only two of them will go on. If everyone played fair it should not matter for the single game that's going to be called 'Best MSX2 game ever', but like with the MSX1 poll I'd like to publish a 'Top 214' as well....

But before we do or do not start this potential extra subtop-round in the megapoll.. I'd like to know how you feel about that.

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