Are we sure that VG-8235 is not upgradable to 2plus?

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Por l_oliveira

Hero (534)

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26-05-2014, 16:44

I have been calling it subrom everywhere... But now that you mention it, I am curious too.

Por mohai

Paladin (979)

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27-05-2014, 17:16

NYYRIKKI wrote:
mohai wrote:

MSX2+ subrom is patched somehow to: not read F4 register, not show logo and match keyboard layout.

I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but actually both #F4-register read/write and keyboard layout are part of MAIN ROM, not SUBROM. Call to logo in KANJI-BASIC ROM as well as handling of #F4 register is done on SUBROM. The routine expects by default that KANJI-BASIC ROM is in same slot as SUBROM.

Ps. I don't know what is the difference, but usually I see that this ROM is called SUBROM on MSX2 and EXTROM on MSX2+/MSX tR. Is there some kind of standard?

You are right. Keyboard layout is in MAIN ROM.
Regarding SUBROM versus EXTROM, I think this could be a wrong translation from ASCII, as both do the same functions: BASIC extensions, BIOS extensions and so...

By the way, my 8245 was upgraded this way: http://www.gilbertomsx.altervista.org/inglese/nms8245/msx2plus/msx2plus.html

Por luppie

Paladin (869)

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27-05-2014, 19:15

There are a lot of topic lately about upgrading a 8235 and/or 8245 to MSX2+
I'm wondering what is the preferred way/best way to achieve this and where to find the documentation and/or the Rom's used (if there are any)

Por l_oliveira

Hero (534)

imagem de l_oliveira

27-05-2014, 19:27

I don't see much point on upgrading a MSX2 to 2+ besides for horizontal scroll. "Photo display screen mode" (SCREEN 11 and 12) is kind of pointless as it's bitmapped and slow.

Actually the V9938 had more features than the V9958. But indeed they went kind of unused so ASCII thought of removing them to add the "photo mode" and the horizontal scroll...

About the horizontal scroll, that's a feature the VDP chip should had since the first version (V9938).

One last thing I can think of is worth having is the wait signaling built into the V9958 VDP chip. Smile

But I'm biased, because I've been using the V9938 built in composite video output to simplify my video design... lol


The video quality isn't so terrible for the cost of a single transistor and a couple of resistors ... ;)

Por Grauw

Ascended (10639)

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27-05-2014, 20:26

Horizontal scroll though… I think if the V9938 had it, it would’ve done wonders for the games!

p.s. Why anyone would use composite in stead of RGB, I don’t understand Smile.

Por l_oliveira

Hero (534)

imagem de l_oliveira

27-05-2014, 20:35

Grauw wrote:

Horizontal scroll though… I think if the V9938 had it, it would’ve done wonders for the games!

p.s. Why anyone would use composite in stead of RGB, I don’t understand Smile.

Because this ain't Europe and there's no TV sets with RGB (even today).

Por Grauw

Ascended (10639)

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27-05-2014, 20:38

That sucks! The image quality is so much better!

Por l_oliveira

Hero (534)

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27-05-2014, 20:43

Grauw wrote:

That sucks! The image quality is so much better!

Yah ! A common trend here now is people look for VGA capable LCD panels which accept 15khz RGB. That's the closest of MSX nirvana video quality one can achieve (relatively easy) in Brazil. Wink

Por yzi

Champion (444)

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27-05-2014, 22:41

[rant] I wouldn't be so happy about the flat screens. With LCD, you see some things you are not meant to see, and you don't see some things you are meant to see. The picture and the motion are distorted and falsified. Maybe it's "high quality", but after it has been ruined. CRT is what everything was made for in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s. And I think even today. And then there are emulators, which add a whole new layer of falsification in addition to the LCD - and of course then there's YouTube... Emulator + video encoding + YouTube frame rate mutilation + LCD --> not much is left of the original experience. Your kid sees the garbage that comes our of these four layers of spoiling and thinks "you must have been out of your mind, if you liked this crap..." Of course it looks like crap, after all the smoothness of motion and picture have been removed and replaced with blocky sharpness and jerkiness. Though the nostalgy factor can save some of it. [/rant]

Por l_oliveira

Hero (534)

imagem de l_oliveira

27-05-2014, 22:56

yzi wrote:

[rant] I wouldn't be so happy about the flat screens. With LCD, you see some things you are not meant to see, and you don't see some things you are meant to see. The picture and the motion are distorted and falsified. Maybe it's "high quality", but after it has been ruined. CRT is what everything was made for in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s. And I think even today. And then there are emulators, which add a whole new layer of falsification in addition to the LCD - and of course then there's YouTube... Emulator + video encoding + YouTube frame rate mutilation + LCD --> not much is left of the original experience. Your kid sees the garbage that comes our of these four layers of spoiling and thinks "you must have been out of your mind, if you liked this crap..." Of course it looks like crap, after all the smoothness of motion and picture have been removed and replaced with blocky sharpness and jerkiness. Though the nostalgy factor can save some of it. [/rant]

It's the gaming version of MP3. I mean what you mentioned does to games video quality what MP3 does to music recordings...

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