Are we sure that VG-8235 is not upgradable to 2plus?

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Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5982)

imagem de NYYRIKKI

24-05-2014, 11:18

Unfortunately I doubt there is good solution here on internet for your problem... You just have to swap cables, TV's and MSX's until you are happy. Does everything start to work after that? Most probably not... You probably still need to make compromise somewhere. Problem is that when the signal goes from VDP trough "analog stuff" to cable and then to digitizer, scaler, picture processing and to LCD controller there can be pretty much anything that can go wrong... and most probably will at some point when the signal changes... There is just no simple solution. You can for example change some electrolytic condensators etc. but since you don't have any analog display you will be just shooting in to dark and wishing for the best.

Best solution that there is is called XRGB-3, but even that is not plug and play. You still need custom cables and lot of fiddling around... and it most probably costs you more than your MSX, cable and monitor combined... but in the end is likely to be less expensive than a new wife.

Tough problem I would say...

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5982)

imagem de NYYRIKKI

24-05-2014, 11:27

yzi wrote:

I'm sure your wife will understand that you want to do this MSX thing properly. Smile You just have to have a CRT monitor, otherwise it's a spoiled fake experience. The 15-incher isn't that big really.

Yes, I was not thinking about...

... even 10" is good when you put your nose close enough... Take one empty case of beers to garage and you have saved the space.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10639)

imagem de Grauw

24-05-2014, 13:11

For the record, I have two modern Samsung LCD TVs (46" and 24") and they both show a sharp and stable MSX image. Though a bit huge in the case of the 46" one Smile.

Por yzi

Champion (444)

imagem de yzi

24-05-2014, 14:02

Sharpness and stability isn't an issue, it's that the picture is Wrong(tm). All graphical stuff looks very different than what it was _intended_ to look like. By using flatscreen displays you're looking at a distorted view. It's like running all your audio through some forced autotune. It's just as wrong as if you had printed the frames on paper using a laser printer. And not just the picture as a still image, but motion looks wrong too.

Just the other week I tested a DVD player on the CRT monitor by playing some home videos, and my son who's naturally used to flatscreens, commented on the picture like, "hey that looks like 3D!" Wink Yeah, sort of. CRT does much of the magic.

The XRGB mini "Framemeister" gets a lot of praise, and it might be a solution to the awful image and motion spoiling. But it costs more than a Turbo R GT...

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5982)

imagem de NYYRIKKI

24-05-2014, 15:38

Amen...

I might be considered some sort of CRT-fan as even on this PC that I'm writing from has big CRT-display, but in PC it does not really matter. MSX is totally different thing. LCD is wrong from the beginning to end. Even if you get everything working "perfectly" there are few things you can say goodbye when moving to LCD: color conversion, correct resolution, interlace, additional colors, scanline patterns, ghosting effects, colour-bleed, shadow mask/aperture grille, phosphor glow, chroma-shift, RF-noise, convergence, Curved Screen, kinescope noise...
All of them are not required / wanted, but loosing all of them is a much bigger problem, trust me...

If you think sharp & stable = better, think again and compare. This is not even some FLAC vs. MP3 issue but something that even untrained eye can see very easily.

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3596)

imagem de sd_snatcher

24-05-2014, 16:00

Maybe the worst one that the majority of LCD TVs/monitors have is the awful lag.

There's also the terrible support for 240p resolutions, that most monitors try to forcibly deinterlace what it's already progressive.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10639)

imagem de Grauw

24-05-2014, 17:46

Although CRT has its advantages such as better colour reproduction, I like the flatness, large size and sharpness of LCD screens. Lag isn’t bad if you put the TV in game mode which disables most image processing. Also there’s no flicker, high pitched noise or static electricity, nor extremely high voltages going through a piece of antiquated hardware right in front of you.

So I’d say that it’s a balance of several factors and which is preferred is a matter of opinion Smile. But more importantly, these matters are also completely unrelated to guiseve’s troubles. So although I totally respect your opinions, I can understand why you prefer CRT, I don’t see why it is relevant here.

Por mohai

Paladin (979)

imagem de mohai

26-05-2014, 15:36

As far as I know, ROM chips for MSX2 upgraded to 2+ can be the same size as the existing ones.
I have an Italian 8245 upraded to 2+ and it does not have any extra ROM chip on it.
MSX2+ subrom is patched somehow to: not read F4 register, not show logo and match keyboard layout.
Somebody told me that startup-screen routines are located in the first Kanji ROM, so upgraded MSX2 are not able to show startup logo.

Por l_oliveira

Hero (534)

imagem de l_oliveira

26-05-2014, 15:43

mohai wrote:

As far as I know, ROM chips for MSX2 upgraded to 2+ can be the same size as the existing ones.
I have an Italian 8245 upraded to 2+ and it does not have any extra ROM chip on it.
MSX2+ subrom is patched somehow to: not read F4 register, not show logo and match keyboard layout.
Somebody told me that startup-screen routines are located in the first Kanji ROM, so upgraded MSX2 are not able to show startup logo.

Yeah, but NYYRIKKI just shown that he solved that problem with his "X" BIOS.

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5982)

imagem de NYYRIKKI

26-05-2014, 16:17

mohai wrote:

MSX2+ subrom is patched somehow to: not read F4 register, not show logo and match keyboard layout.

I don't know if this is interesting to anyone, but actually both #F4-register read/write and keyboard layout are part of MAIN ROM, not SUBROM. Call to logo in KANJI-BASIC ROM as well as handling of #F4 register is done on SUBROM. The routine expects by default that KANJI-BASIC ROM is in same slot as SUBROM.

Ps. I don't know what is the difference, but usually I see that this ROM is called SUBROM on MSX2 and EXTROM on MSX2+/MSX tR. Is there some kind of standard?

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