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Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

29-07-2016, 11:27

Meits wrote:

Text won't be an issue and the appearance wouldn't be a big issue either...
Unless French people would be offended by seeing a 700P instead of a 700F, a general picture should do Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

Only one picture ? That's a caricature. What about the back side or the inside of the machine ? What about my intention to add screenshots of the firmware on disk, in a similar way to this page of the blueMSX manual, but with bigger screenshots : http://www.msxblue.com/manual/hbf700.htm ?

Detail of these screenshots :
- 7 about Hi-Brid (if you put all on an unique page, it will mean at least 28 screenshots, 7 for each of the 4 main used languages corresponding to the 4 versions of the computer)
- 8 about the demo disk

All on a unique page for this computer should mean at least 45 pictures (9 for the machine, 36 for the firmware).

The general Wiki rules can't here be applied, because they apply to Wiki with only a few pictures per page (and they are many Wiki pages without any picture !). The MRC Wiki is different, the pictures have their role in his originality, but it implies to apply rules that are different from other Wikis.

Por Meits

Scribe (6458)

imagem de Meits

29-07-2016, 12:38

I mean, what's the difference between a 700F, S, P, D or whatever? that letter at the end. The rest is the same white case with everything on the exact same place.
If you want to make several pictures of a sony 700, be my guest, I like it a lot. But I don't need to know which sony 700 it is or have a zoom on the letter at the end. So please not a picture of every model. It serves no purpose imho. Even the manufacturer's manual will say that images may differ from reality, so why shouldn't a wiki? It's to have an impression of the item, nothing more. So having several entries of a sony 700 is imho (insert something negative here Running Naked in a Field of Flowers ).

As for the bandwidth, that's why there are thumbnails.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

29-07-2016, 13:00

You know that the main difference is not the letter but the keyboard !

So, a general picture (computer + keyboard) + 4 different keyboards + the back side + different inside pictures + box + etc ... = at least 9 pictures only for the machine

Read again my previous post for the firmware !

A page with at least 45 pictures ? Not for me !

Por Meits

Scribe (6458)

imagem de Meits

29-07-2016, 12:51

for the nitpicker there can be several keyboard pictures in one wiki entry.

Edit: and again, check any manual stating that the picture can differ from the actual device. Letters in an other order are not really relevant to me personally.

Por gdx

Enlighted (4802)

imagem de gdx

29-07-2016, 14:05

The question is: does we make a page for each model even if they are very similar or not?

If you absolutely want to create a page to group the same characteristics, is it appropriate to create a generic page, or is it better to take the base model? (For example the base model of HB-F700F, S, P, D is the HB-500.)

Also, we must think at the goal of wiki. I think the wiki serves principaly the curious, MSX's fans or collectors who wish to acquire material. For collectors it's nice to see all information on wanted model on a single page.

Meits wrote:

I mean, what's the difference between a 700F, S, P, D or whatever?

Pictures of MSX confirm the differences when they are different, otherwise they confirm that the machines are the same. Moreover, it is interesting to see what air has machine which we speak.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

29-07-2016, 15:44

Even though we're not coming to a conclusion yet I like how we're all thinking along about how the Wiki could evolve. Exactly what it's meant for!

There's a lot to say for both approaches, but I think we should take bandwith and MRC not having a responsive design out of the equation.

Visiting many different pages as opposed to a single one consumes quite a tad of bandwidth as well. Since our most recent server move the images on our site get optimized for size within a few minutes, so I'd say there are no considerable benefits or drawbacks for either approach. Thumbnails & lazy loading of images can make this even more of a non-issue.

The MRC design is subject to change & a new generation will definitely be more mobile-friendly. So I'd say we should look for what makes sense mainly with the actual content in mind - and look for what would be most user-friendly from a content perspective.

$0.02

Por Manuel

Ascended (18237)

imagem de Manuel

29-07-2016, 23:30

gdx wrote:
Manuel wrote:

As I explained when I came up with this: the problem is that it's hard to keep it in sync.

As I explained it's easy to keep it in sync. Just a few copy / paste. The closely models are not many and the principal explanations has already been put. There are very few updates to add. Just a few errors to correct or some clarifications to add.

You removed my arguments against that: people won't do it, because they don't know that they have to do it and because they will forget and because they just don't care.

Having duplicated information is almost a guarantee they will get out of sync... really...

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

30-07-2016, 01:22

How about we use extra categories for this? I think that ought to keep everybody happy.

Example

Category: Sony HB-700 series
Contains generic information that otherwise would be duplicated and some generic pictures where it doesn't matter which specific type is shown. As it works with Wiki categories, all different types will be listed below in a nice little table.

So the HB-700P (etc) would get a separate page, categorized within the Sony HB-700 series where one can lookup the information that applies to the entire range of HB-700 computers.

Por gdx

Enlighted (4802)

imagem de gdx

30-07-2016, 02:46

Manuel wrote:
gdx wrote:
Manuel wrote:

As I explained when I came up with this: the problem is that it's hard to keep it in sync.

As I explained it's easy to keep it in sync. Just a few copy / paste. The closely models are not many and the principal explanations has already been put. There are very few updates to add. Just a few errors to correct or some clarifications to add.

You removed my arguments against that: people won't do it, because they don't know that they have to do it and because they will forget and because they just don't care.

I have not quoted it but I answered:

gdx wrote:

The closely models are not many and the principal explanations has already been put. There are very few updates to add. Just a few errors to correct or some clarifications to add.

I thought I was clear.

Manuel wrote:

Having duplicated information is almost a guarantee they will get out of sync... really...

You know the MSX Models does not evolve anymore. So far me, Mars2000 and other users have done the necessary. The main has already been described. There is no more much left to synchronize. Perhaps even nothing.

Por gdx

Enlighted (4802)

imagem de gdx

31-07-2016, 11:39

Here's another Good example of a bad grouping: The OPL4 page that brings together the original Moonsound with clones and blends the devices with OPL4 chip specifications. All is here in one page and avoids a litte the duplicated info but it makes no sense at all for occasional users, but also as editorial viewpoint. Moreover it becomes difficult to speak of defects and qualities of each device. Same thing for MSX-AUDIO page.

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