Could we have GuyveR800 back plz ?

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Por MrRudi

Hero (523)

imagem de MrRudi

19-11-2004, 18:29

Easily put, this is not the real world. On my forum, I can ban you for the way you spell your nickname, for the fact I think you smell bad, for the fact I simply don't like you or for the fact you dated my sister. Same goes for the mods of MRC. This is not a democracy, this is a private spot on the internet that is open to anyone, as long as they abide by some basic rules and don't piss off the owners. IMHO Guyver refused both in many cases, and therefore had it coming.

Even more simpler: say you invite someone to your home, and this guest starts pissing you off, and when you say something about that he freaks out, calls you a fascist and a nazi for trying to surpress his utterly meaningless opinion in your own home. Would you invite such a person to come back for tea next day? Especially if similar events took place earlier?

That 'right' does not exist here, coz it simply does not apply. And Guyver is not proscecuted, he's just not welcome anymore. To keep the analogy with real life alive: I would request a restraining order versus the person described in my example to make sure he never enters my home again.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

19-11-2004, 18:58

Same goes for the mods of MRC. This is not a democracy, this is a private spot on the internet that is open to anyone, as long as they abide by some basic rules and don't piss off the owners. IMHO Guyver refused both in many cases, and therefore had it coming.

I must be a dreamer, but the MSX community should be a democracy and as MRC is the most visited MSX site, it should be like a democracy.

A great English man has said that "democracy is the less bad politic system". Rules must exist to define frontiers between good and bad attitudes, but a procedure must also exist to control the good application of the rules. Without this control, there's no democracy, but that's dictature.

So, again, I insist, why there's no procedure to avoid that someone can say 'it's a dictature' ?

Por IC

Hero (557)

imagem de IC

19-11-2004, 18:58

well, imho, it depends on how strong the relationship is before I would really kick him/ her out and never see him/her again

Por MrRudi

Hero (523)

imagem de MrRudi

19-11-2004, 19:36

Because it is. Only it's a dictature by a group of persons, who democratically make decisions for the rest of us, and are open to suggestions of 'the people'. What do you propose? have a poll for each moderation decision and do nothing till everyone voted? If we would have democratically voted whether or not Guyver should have been banned, he still would have been banned (imho). A tribunal where he could have defended himself? Try imagining that, I burst out in laughs after three seconds trying to visualise that.

(Besides, communism is by far the fairest political system in it's principles, it's just never executed well. The USSR, China and North-Korea perverted Marx' definition of Communism. Whatever Churchill had to say about it)

ps. for IC: as you could have read, the relationship was already pretty fucked up Smile

Por Alex Ganzeveld

Expert (89)

imagem de Alex Ganzeveld

19-11-2004, 19:51

As for me: Guyver800 is an anoying twat and I am pleased to read that he has been banned. Personal fights caused me to stop reading the MRC for some period of time.

As for democracy: keep up the good work. The goal of democracy is to act in the best interest of the majority of a community. I think the best interest of the MSX community is served by kicking out individuals like Guyver800, who make a habit of insulting people and forcing them their opinion.

Why not start a "And stay out!" thread? Wink

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

19-11-2004, 19:53

What do you propose? have a poll for each moderation decision and do nothing till everyone voted? If we would have democratically voted whether or not Guyver should have been banned, he still would have been banned (imho). A tribunal where he could have defended himself? Try imagining that, I burst out in laughs after three seconds trying to visualise that.

Of course, a poll before each mod decision has no sense. It would be totally inefficient, because mod must react in a short time.

Actually, the mods have now a useful tool to know when they probably must react : it's the moderator alert.

But what if someone thinks that the mod's decision is not good ? You can't it say, because it can be viewed as an insult, even if you use 'soft' words.

You have only 2 choices : you stop completely the discussion OR you use another forum or mailing list to continue the discussion. But you can't say on MRC that you contest the decision.

So, there should be a private forum (on MRC or elsewhere) to contest the decision and defend your point of view. It should be a discussion after the mod's decision, not before. And it could happen that the decision should be changed, partially or entirely.

Por Alex Ganzeveld

Expert (89)

imagem de Alex Ganzeveld

19-11-2004, 20:11

So, there should be a private forum (on MRC or elsewhere) to contest the decision and defend your point of view. It should be a discussion after the mod's decision, not before. And it could happen that the decision should be changed, partially or entirely.

So basically what you're saying is things are great as they are? There is, and there has always been the posibility of debating these matters via e-mail. That's about as private as it gets. Whoever feels involved or thinks that he has got something to say can do so via email. A free for all discussionboard.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

19-11-2004, 20:27

The difference between private e-mails and a private forum is that in a forum, you can have more than 2 guys (or girls) that are discussing at the same time.

Besides, the forum that I suggest could eventually change the mod's decision.

So, that's really different ...

Por MrRudi

Hero (523)

imagem de MrRudi

19-11-2004, 20:48

I'm not debating against a private forum to discuss big ass decisions, don't get me wrong. I am debating against the illusion that this forum is a public place where you can say whatever you want without repercusions. It's not. It's not a real life conference room, it's a private place. True democracy including all the civil rights like we have in Holland would lead to total anarchy. I've seen it happen, and it ain't pretty.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (6014)

imagem de mars2000you

19-11-2004, 21:01

MrRudi : total true democracy on a forum is indeed impossible, because there are not elections for example.

I've noticed that you don't contest my suggestion. That's a good point Smile
What I suggest is only a little form of democracy, but it's better than a situation that can be viewed by some people as a dictature.

About the illusion of a public place : I get your point .... even on a public place, you can't say extrem things .... Internet can give this illusion (because it's a new media and that laws are slowly adapted for this new media), but that's an illusion ! A fortiori, as this forum is not submitted to public rules, it's like a great family where everyone should respect each other .... that's the real problem !

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