Webshop needs improvement!

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Por Grauw

Ascended (10151)

imagem de Grauw

13-08-2004, 22:27

Hey!

I really think the webshop needs to improve. It works ok, that is not the problem. The problem is that it is totally untransparant and barely gives feedback to the user.

When a friend of mine was here (a month or two ago!), he purchased Teacher's Terror in your webshop. It was quite a bad experience, as we were left entirely in the dark about how it was supposed to work. What happened was that we clicked the 'PayPal buy now' button, we immediately came on the PayPal page, and we paid the money. We were wondering how it worked exactly but we had to assume (note: the customer having to 'assume' is bad) that after finishing the purchase we would get further instructions on how to proceed.

Unfortunately, we didn't. Noppes. Nada. Well, a 'thank you for using PayPal' message or something. So, the we started to think like, well, we'll probably get instructions by email or something. So we looked both in Jan's email account (which was used for PayPal) and my email account (because we noticed that we were signed in to the MRC as me and not with his account, which probably wasn't the best way), nothing there. Well, we thought (again! uncertainty!), perhaps it's a manual process, and we need to wait a bit before one of the MRC admin's sees that the purchase has been made and will contact us/send us the game by email... So, I would give Jan a shout if I got an email from the MRC, or he would get one.

Two months later. We kind of forgot all about it, I am looking around at the MRC a bit, and suddenly I see... A 'My Purchases' link in the (well-hidden) User menu all the way down. Ahaaaaaa... But I found that out way too late! And it's rediculous I had to accidentally stumble upon it anyway!

So, concluding... before going to PayPal, I think you should at least *clearly* present the user with the following information:

  • A description of the steps involved in the purchasing process ('you will be directed to Paypal now to make your payment' or something)
  • Information on where to find your download
  • A license agreement ('algemene voorwaarden')
  • The user account for which the purchase will be made
  • And of course the item you are going to purchase and its price
  • ...and probably more I didn't think of.

This should appear as a seperate page between clicking on the PayPal button and actually going to PayPal. Actually, there are certain requirements set by Dutch law for web purchases. I don't know them exactly, but I am pretty sure you don't meet them. Additional research is definately needed.

I *really* think this should be improved, and has a high priority. You are dealing with other people's money here after all, and that means you must be extra careful.

~Grauw

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Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

13-08-2004, 22:44

Grauw, dude, chill out. We're not a professional multinational corporation who have invested millions of dollars into a multi-million-dollar-earning webshop you know. What people tend to forget all the time is that the MRC is an MSX Community website made by and for hobbyists. If you have any suggestions or remarks you are free to post them, of course, but please don't expect MRC to be as professional as you are indicating by now. That's just plain rediculous. Besides, I would have appreciated it if you had just contacted us first (like somewhere between now and the two months that have passed since your order) instead of instantly starting to make a fuzz out of it on the forums.

As a matter of fact, a list of improvements (including sending an e-mail with details on where to download the product which will be sent to the customer as soon as the instant payment notification has been processed) are on the ToDo list already, as we had several customers wondering where they could download their products after buying them. This and other minor improvements on the webshop section are already on their way. If you had bothered to contact us earlier, you would have known already.

I think the entire buying process of MRC is clearly a matter of common sense. The button below a product says 'Paypal - buy now', and when you click that button the Paypal page clearly shows you are going to pay something to the MSX Resource Center and mentions the name of the product and its price. The only thing it doesn't list is the username of the buyer, I'll check if that's possible to do with Paypal as the IPN options are rather limited, but have recently changed.

As soon as a product has been paid, the MRC server receives a Paypal IPN (Instant Payment Notification) and you can download your product. The only thing not clear enough in that process is that the MRC doesn't send a mail when the IPN has been processed. That's all. And, as I already said, writing the (multilingual) code for sending that mail already is on the ToDo list.

All you had to do to find out where you could find your purchased product was contact us and we had immediately notified you. So don't be an *** and blame the MRC for the fact that you just didn't even bother to contact us. The way you put things now makes it look like it's a matter of life and death which it plainly isn't. It's about a €2,99 MSX game that was already waiting for you (well, your friend actually) the moment you had paid for it.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10151)

imagem de Grauw

13-08-2004, 23:15

I'm not trying to be an ass, and if you got the impression that I am getting worked up over this, you got it wrong.

I just think this is an issue the MRC *really* needs to pay attention to. It disappoints me a lot that you are discarding this important issue as if it's nothing, instead getting all defensive.

You sell stuff, so you need to be somewhat professional about that. And the current way is just totally unexplanatory. There is 0 (zero) explanation about how the purchasing works. Sure, a mail to you guys would have cleared things up. But you said it yourself, it's only € 2,99, and I kind of forgot about the purchase. And it really should just not be necessary for me to have to take special action. You guys received money so you should make sure that finding my way to the download area is pretty self-explanatory.

To be honest *this* does piss me off. Why don't you guys listen if I try to make clear that the webshop isn't entirely up to spec yet?

~Grauw

Por Grauw

Ascended (10151)

imagem de Grauw

13-08-2004, 23:20

The only thing not clear enough in that process is that the MRC doesn't send a mail when the IPN has been processed. That's all.
No, the *entire* process isn't clear. Yes, MRC should send an email after the [irrelevant technical detail] has been processed. But more importantly the MRC should have told the user where to download his purchase before that already. That's like, step one in the process. Right now it's like 'give us money, and find the rest out by yourself'.

I think the entire buying process of MRC is clearly a matter of common sense
Come on... Don't give me crap. It's obviously not, and that's what I'm trying to make clear.

as we had several customers wondering where they could download their products after buying them.
Then that should be a strong indication that you are doing something wrong there.

~Grauw

Por Bart

Paragon (1422)

imagem de Bart

13-08-2004, 23:22

Relax Grauw. You know us. You've been MRC crew, so you know how things work. No need to open up topics like this when you've could just as easily have told us directly.

Anyway, we -do- take your, and everyone else's comments for that matter, seriously. As Snout said already, your main complaint is already on the ToDo list. So that'll be taken care of.

For the record, the dutch law "Kopen op afstand" was introduced in february 2001. We do meet that law. We do think before we act Smile Nevertheless, the webshop does need improvements, but as I said already we're working on it...

Por Grauw

Ascended (10151)

imagem de Grauw

13-08-2004, 23:23

And finally, I don't think at all that the forum is not a good place to discuss this.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

13-08-2004, 23:25

Forgive me for being a bit edgy these days. You might have noticed a lot has happened recently. Apart from that I'm not working on MRC 24/7. I have a job, I go to college, I need to eat and sleep every now and then, I'm working on several interesting projects apart from the MRC. All the other MRC webmasters and admins have real lives too. We are already working on making things a lot clearer. We were under the impression they were already more than clear enough but apparently they were not.

However, we don't have the capability to implement such changes within 1 hour and your initial post more or less had a 'change it!!! now!!!' attitude. The routines need to be tested to make sure they work like they should. After all, we're dealing with copyrighted software and (your) money here.

At the time we launched the webshop things were quite different at the MRC. There were less options in the left menu (hence making the 'my purchases' option less hard to find), for instance. As we aren't selling hundreds of products every day (if only Tongue) getting the webshop back up to date hasn't been getting our main attention as of yet. We just felt other things were more important, especially since the few people who did buy products in the webshop managed to work things out by themselves just fine. Only recently we have received some e-mails about people not being able to find the 'my purchases' option, so the decision to make some improvements over there had already been made.

In short, I'm not discarding this important issue as if it's nothing, but I just cannot fullfill your demands right now, which is something you -having been part of the MRC admin team yourself- should know as well. However, the changes will be implemented in the near future and will be announced on the frontpage. Just a bit more patience from your side will be highly appreciated Wink

Por Latok

msx guru (3841)

imagem de Latok

13-08-2004, 23:28

snout, you forgot all them women.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10151)

imagem de Grauw

13-08-2004, 23:31

we're working on it
Then you're not making much haste with it... How long does the web shop exist right now? Sorry, but you didn't make the impression that it was being worked on.

And quit the chill out and relax remarks. The 'we're right and you're wrong' attitude. And please don't be so uptight about me posting about this in the forum instead of contacting you directly. I simply didn't think of it.

I would rather have had that you replied sensibly to the actual issues I raised.

In any case, it doesn't hurt if other people read this, because then they know what to expect for now. It was definately not my most pleasant online shopping experience, so it would be nice if they are warned now and know where to look and how it works. I am sure they will understand that you are not a professionals and I am also sure that no-one will hold this against you. Again, there is *no* need to get defensive.

~Grauw

Por Grauw

Ascended (10151)

imagem de Grauw

13-08-2004, 23:32

snout: ok, this is more like it. I absolutely do not expect this to happen now, and you got the wrong impression. If I were demanding something be assured that I would have specifically written 'I demand that...'. I however do think this should be high on your ToDo-list, which it apparantly wasn't (I hope it is now).

~Grauw

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

imagem de snout

14-08-2004, 00:30

Ok, I just phoned Grauw because we both had the feeling we were talking a bit along each other. I indeed got the wrong impression after reading Grauw's initial post on this matter (sorry bro, as explained it have been rough times which got me quite a bit too edgy), which made Grauw totally not understand why I reacted the way I did (are you still following this? Smile)

Point is, ever since we spotted the webshop needed some improvement we put it high on our ToDo list and it will be the first (or at least, among the first) thing to be improved on the MRC in the near future. Just hang in there a little longer, guyz!

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