Sony MSX realiability vs Panasonic

Door albs_br

Expert (70)

afbeelding van albs_br

09-07-2020, 05:24

I saw this guy on tweeter saying the Panasonics are FAR more reliable than Sony.
https://twitter.com/a_p_0_c/status/1097614429703884802

Transcription here, for those who haven't twitter account:

Quote:

A couple people have been grumbling (looking at you
@ImATrackMan
hahaha) about the hardware advice at the end of #MSX panel so I'll do a little explanation here, but also basically say it is COMPLETELY subjective and I knew recommending certain hardware would be controversial
6:50 PM · Feb 18, 2019·Twitter Web Client
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The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
Replying to
@a_p_0_c
Empirically, I've bought/sold/owned, at this point over 60 MSX computers over the past 2 years... which is a lot. In my experience with that, I've important primarily MSX2s and MSX2+s, mostly of the Sony and Panasonic varieties
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
Looking at my purchase logs and my margin sheets from eBay, I found *personally* that Sony models are much less reliable. I have purchased 5 HB-F1XDs, in varying shape; of them, 1 worked correctly. The rest had keyboard, sound, or other hardware problems
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
With HB-F1, I've purchased 6, of the 6, 2 worked correctly. The rest, again, had sound problems. HB-F1II? I have a beautiful one in box with all inserts - and sound problems. I have an HB-F1XDmkII - you guessed it, sound problems.

Of Panasonic models I've had, I've possessed numerous models with the "suicide" board that I mentioned - especially the FS-A1mkII and the FS-A1F. Not a single one of those models had sound mixed at the same volume - nearly all had varying levels of sound output
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
I at one point, somehow, had 6 FS-A1Fs (I don't know how that happened) and every single of one of them had a different volume output. I recorded it somewhere - it was crazy. FS-A1mkIIs - I've only seen two of them good enough to sell as working out of the 6 I've had
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
And I guess then it goes to the FS-A1. I've sold 10 of these and... drumroll... I've never owned one that didn't just work. Worst I've seen with them is keyboard issues. Yes, not as many features as the HB-F1 and yes, not really a pretty MSX2... but reliability is important
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
The entire point, and some have agreed, of having a "what to buy" hardware discussion was to offer options for beginners. I cannot repair them myself (at least not well) so I recommended computers completely based on reliability for the purpose of showing how to get started
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 18, 2019
I would say with some degree of confidence that if you were to blindly bid on a Panasonic FS-A1 right now, you have the highest % chance of that computer working. I can't say that about a Sony HB-F1/XD/XDJ. Just my two cents though!
The Real ap0c ™ @ June 2020
@a_p_0_c
·
Feb 19, 2019
Also, I'll be glad to look at any auction and let you know what I think about it, possible risks/rewards and tell you what I think - on Y! Auctions, eBay, etc - just hit me up

I thought it was an interesting information, given the machines age, each bit of reliability counts a lot.

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Van Pentarou

Champion (266)

afbeelding van Pentarou

09-07-2020, 11:08

But we don't know if the computers were bought as guaranteed working or cheap junk.
And how many there were of each manufacturer?
Sony 5*HB-F1XD+ 6*HB-F1XD + 1* HB-F1II + 1*HB-F1XDmkII = 13 machines and the other all Panasonic?

Quote:

5 HB-F1XDs, in varying shape; [...] 1 worked correctly. The rest had keyboard, sound, or other hardware problems

Quote:

HB-F1, I've purchased 6,[...] 2 worked correctly. The rest, again, had sound problems.
HB-F1II?[..] sound problems. [...]
HB-F1XDmkII - [...] sound problems.

So it seems SONYs have a lot of problems, especially sound related.
But so did his Panasonics:

Quote:

Of Panasonic models I've had, I've possessed numerous models with the "suicide" board that I mentioned - especially the FS-A1mkII and the FS-A1F. Not a single one of those models had sound mixed at the same volume - nearly all had varying levels of sound output

Quote:

[...]had 6 FS-A1Fs [...] and every single of one of them had a different volume output.
[...]FS-A1mkIIs - I've only seen two of them good enough to sell as working out of the 6 I've had

To me it looks like both the Panasonic and the SONY bought in various state (JUNK?) have problems, especially sound related and he's been lucky with the FS-A1.

Van Nprod

Expert (78)

afbeelding van Nprod

09-07-2020, 12:40

Both the Sony and Panasonic models have the infamous HIC-1 board with the leaky electrolytic caps, so i think saying that one is more reliable than the other is a bit misleading. The part where some of the Panasonic units had wonky sound output levels reaffirms that the capacitors are ready to go since (AFAIK) that's the very board responsible for audio amplification. The Panasonics might've had a slightly better batch of capacitors, or were just manufactured sooner and haven't started to seriously leak yet, but in any case will need to be replaced immediately.

Both the Panasonic and Sony machines from that time also use this unusual "2.5 layer pcb" where the bottom layer has a second layer of glued traces ontop of the soldermask. I don't know if that's a potential reliability issue or not, but i wouldn't trust anything that relies on conductive glue for electrical contact, especially after all these years...

Van sniper22477

Master (248)

afbeelding van sniper22477

09-07-2020, 14:23

Hi,
Maybe we should discuss this in the Hardware forum, however, I will give my judgment based on experience on both brands:

From my personal experience, the Panasonic MSX computers, for sure, far far far better than SONY in terms of durability, and I will tell you two cases:

Picture:
While connecting SCART/HDMI converters, if you unplug the cable from the converter and plug it again while the computer is running, I am telling you, your SONY MSX is dead... not totally dead, and you need an expert to fix. This happened to me with SONY HB-F1XV. When I have done the same with Panasonic FS-A1 GT and WSX, everything is ok and no problem.

Electricity:
I plugged SONY HB-F1XDJ, which is 110V into 220V by mistake, and the computer power supply is gone, while I have the same thing with Panasonic FS-A1 and I heard a strange sound, then I realized that I made a mistake, and immediately I turned it off and plug it into the right voltage (110V) and it runs like a horse with no issues.

Finally, I am not a technician, and maybe the above is a coincidence, and I was lucky, but this is what I experienced with both brands.

Regards,

Ibrahim

Van Meits

Scribe (5899)

afbeelding van Meits

09-07-2020, 14:40

I can only speak for the MSX2+ part. This is where Panasonic does not have the HIC-1 board anymore.
I did have several issues with a Sony HB-F1XDJ. The Sony HB-F1XV was treated before I got it. None of my four Panasonic MSX2+es have ever showed any issue and apart from some extra memory and a new disk drive they're all original.
Sony did use inferior capacitors on the mainboard in at least one batch of the HB-F1XDJ. I'm not sure if it goes for all. At least my problems were no isolated cases.

In the MSX2+ world I do place Panasonic's reliability above Sony's. On the other hand, those Sonys look great.

And yes, this topic should move to the hardware forum. Will do so right away.

Van gdx

Prophet (3571)

afbeelding van gdx

09-07-2020, 15:47

I agree Panasonics are far more reliable than Sony. The materials used are generally more resistant to time. Tracks of boards are more resistant to soldering iron. The electronics are better designed. It is more resistant to stress. For example, a cartridge inserted in the slot when the MSX is turned on is less risk of damaging the VDP or other important components.

Van Parn

Hero (569)

afbeelding van Parn

09-07-2020, 18:20

My friend Leonard said that Sony's motherboards are more fragile. I personally don't have many machines: an A1F, working perfectly after being upgraded to an MSX2+; an A1ST, changed keyboard membrane, unreliable keyboard maybe due to membrane very difficult to position correctly; and an F1XDJ, with a dead joystick port and no way to fix it, according to Leonard. The F1XDJ also has some humming on the audio out, and all three have been recapped at some point.

So by my count Panasonic is 50% reliable while Sony is 0% reliable. Tongue

EDIT: I also have an YIS-503, which was dead and Leonard fixed.