The future of 8bit sound

The future of 8bit sound

van hamlet op 22-02-2019, 20:32
Onderwerp: Development
Talen:

The MSX Standard seems to be the future for true, authentic video game music from hardware!
In this Youtube video you can join Steve Lakawicz (chiptune's "ap0c" / co-host of Retro Game Audio) as he explains how to use MSX standard computers to play audio files from everything from Sega Master System to Sharp X-1 Turbo to PC-98 - all off authentic sound chips. He is telling about the history of MSX and how to buy/build and assemble your own compact home hardware listening station!

Relevant link:
Youtube

Reacties (30)

Van da_Dude

Rookie (29)

afbeelding van da_Dude

25-02-2019, 13:34

nice tune talk. i saw ap0c his set during MagFest live stream. was good to finally see and hear a MSX machine Live on stage (besides doing such old traditions myself).
hehe, here's link to my silly twitch with VGM from MSX: https://www.twitch.tv/SceneCAT/videos

Van hamlet

Scribe (2630)

afbeelding van hamlet

25-02-2019, 13:58

Although I'm not a musician, the music scene on MSX has fascinated me since the old days. Unlike the Atari ST, which dominated many recording studios as a kind of standard, the MSX not only controlled MIDI instruments, generated the sounds itself and caused many users to deal with the sound forms. Grauws player (and ohers of course) now seem to open another door.
Anyway, da_Dude, thanks for sharing the twitch link!

Van Manuel

Ascended (15821)

afbeelding van Manuel

25-02-2019, 23:41

Looks more and more like it that MSX is finally breaking through in the US! After 35 years! Ahem.

Van ImATrackMan

Expert (87)

afbeelding van ImATrackMan

26-02-2019, 01:28

Fun fact, besides the MSX itself, his SFG, and the MMM he used for the Genesis demonstrations, I provided most of the hardware. Modulon, Makoto, Yamaha adapter, Shockwave, an SCC, and I even sent him a copy of Xak II.

Van Manuel

Ascended (15821)

afbeelding van Manuel

26-02-2019, 07:30

Yeah, you were clearly mentioned.

Van Meits

Scribe (5650)

afbeelding van Meits

26-02-2019, 17:51

In the presentation the guy said that he got the Shockwave there and was a bit like "it's not the best" about it. I wonder why he said that. All other OPL4 cartridges use the same not-too-good DAC while Shockwave claims to use a better one. That should improve the sound. Purely for that reason I joined a friend who just ordered one. I am curious to hear if it's better. It's quite strange to hear him say it's a not so good one then. I have all the other ones which do differ a bit from each other, but they all have points on which they could've improved the sound quality.
I wish I already had the thing so I could either back him up or debunk it. But I guess that'll take a while. The postal service loves to store stuff from outside the EU on their shelves just to tease us. Bad EU.

Van da_Dude

Rookie (29)

afbeelding van da_Dude

26-02-2019, 21:59

oO
Just updated my 4gb VGM MFR SDcard again, and thought i'd share here also. note: these are all Unpacked/Renamed *.VGM files for use on 'normal' MSX/MSX2/MSX2+ machines. No *.VGZ files so No Long Loading/Unpacking time before tunes actually start to play. i also removed all m3u/png files.
if one would like/prefer the same content but Untouched with all *.VGZ files etc [for happy TurboR users], let me know and i'll upload it too.
Usage:
one can Write this *.IMG to a 4gb SDcard using Win32DiskImager, or just unpack it with 7zip to destination of choice and copy the content to whereever you'd like it.
Link:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/zd2els55soklouf/SceneCAT_MFR_...

Enjoy
:RNFF:

Van Latok

msx guru (3694)

afbeelding van Latok

28-02-2019, 20:57

Thx Dude, I love it! Would like the VGZ files as well Smile

Van da_Dude

Rookie (29)

afbeelding van da_Dude

01-03-2019, 02:13

okay, so here are the Untouched files from VGMrips.net
https://ufile.io/air8x

in the meantime, i've removed some vgm's from the OPN2c/Sega_MD folder to make some free space so i could Update the 4GB VGM SDcard /Scene-folder with lots of Scene/Chiptune/Homebrew VGM tunes (480), taken from several sources. (even 500+ Midi tunes but those are added to my 16gb/32gb SDcards. the 32gb has all them Sega_MD vgm's too)

Updated 4gb VGM MFR SDcard:
https://ufile.io/t8ews

and Don't Panic! here it is, a nice link with the Sega_MD VGM's:
https://archive.org/details/Project2612CompleteArchive201806...

Enjoy !

greetz, SceneCAT
ps. grrr, now i also want a TurboR.... :D
:RNFF:

Van ToriHino

Champion (383)

afbeelding van ToriHino

01-03-2019, 06:59

Thks for this update. And yes, a TurboR really helps here Smile

Van DRomero

Expert (103)

afbeelding van DRomero

01-03-2019, 09:48

@Meits: Dosent the DalSoRi R2 have the best sound quality off all the OPL4? Better than shockwave I think.

Van Grauw

Ascended (8515)

afbeelding van Grauw

01-03-2019, 09:51

@DRomero It’s not bad at all, though I’ve yet to encounter a noise-free OPL4.

Van Meits

Scribe (5650)

afbeelding van Meits

01-03-2019, 10:44

DRomero wrote:

@Meits: Dosent the DalSoRi R2 have the best sound quality off all the OPL4? Better than shockwave I think.

The sound of both Dal-So-Ri is about the same. It's slightly softer than the Sunrise Moonsound in both volume and sound color. But noise there is.

Van ap0c

Supporter (1)

afbeelding van ap0c

02-03-2019, 03:32

oh hey its me - thanks for the nice comments on this video and stuff Smile Been a lurker on this board for a very long time haha. Please continue to provide corrections if possible - I was definitely thinking off the top of my head and made some mistakes (lol BlueMSX) - the audio didn't work originally and I ended up starting late, which threw me off. I also managed to fry my Modulon somehow right before the panel and had to use Trackman's. You know, little bit of nerves haha. I plan on making a second smaller video to clear some of things up so again, keep the corrections coming!
Addressing this, yeah, I ordered a Shockwave 2 actually and I'm looking forward to it. I was THINKING it would be better in general. I was referring to the hiss - would be nice to find (or try to find) a way to make it cleaner. I know that's a challenge. I also heard that some of the other ones do sound better in general...? I was just kind of openly wondering while I was talking. Either way, it's a great product.
My BIGGEST regret is this video cuts out the last part of my presentation where I thank everyone who helped - that would include ImATrackMan, Grauw, Leo Oliveira, and SuperSoniqs. I'm a caveman when it comes to dev and these fine folks are treasures - the whole presentation wouldn't have been possible without them Smile
A lot of people showed up to this too - it was at midnight and there were at least 80-100 folks in the audience. I can tell you that MANY USA folks have inquired about MSXs and that interest is very high around here, which was the entire goal of the presentation. MSX is awesome and I really just want everyone to know about it and enjoy like I do.

Van Meits

Scribe (5650)

afbeelding van Meits

02-03-2019, 03:49

ap0c wrote:

Addressing this, yeah, I ordered a Shockwave 2 actually and I'm looking forward to it. I was THINKING it would be better in general. I was referring to the hiss - would be nice to find (or try to find) a way to make it cleaner. I know that's a challenge. I also heard that some of the other ones do sound better in general...? I was just kind of openly wondering while I was talking. Either way, it's a great product.

WOZ Blaster stands out to be the worst I've heard since its output is very low. That affects the noise ratio. WOZ Blaster has been released as FM Blaster as well. There is a fix but that requires a steady hand. The result is great.
There are two Dal-So-Ri. Both are louder than WOZ Blaster but there's the same noise. Because the output it louder, the noise is less present, but still there.
Moonsound is even louder. Sounds a tiny tad sharper than Dal-So-Ri. It's up to now my second choice after Dal-So-Ri.

I've been complaining about the noise on the jack output at a friend who knows stuff. He says it is possible to make a fix, but there's no generic fix that covers all audio cartridges. I wouldn't mind losing some $$$ to get those outputs finally clean.
In my experience it does make a difference in what MSX you have your audio cartridge connected. Most of my MSXes are Japanese models. All add noise to any audio cartridge's own audio output. Even if pin 49 has been cut. The more brightness on your screen, the louder the noise (that's why vgmplay has a dark mode). The same cartridges produce a way cleaner sound when they're connected to my Philipses. Therefore I think the hiss you talk about might be because you use a WSX.

Van da_Dude

Rookie (29)

afbeelding van da_Dude

02-03-2019, 12:18

good to see you here, welcome aboard ap0c! \0/ Smile
greetz, SceneCAT
Tongue

Van l_oliveira

Hero (529)

afbeelding van l_oliveira

02-03-2019, 15:06

You guys need to see the Brazilian OPL4 cartridges which went with SANYO CD Player DACs. Almost ZERO noise.

Sample:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17M9M4UlB5xddrWf53GwbL_mLnS...

YAC513 sucks.

Van alexito

Hero (555)

afbeelding van alexito

04-03-2019, 03:15

Where is the same SAMPLE SONG with YAC513? .... so we can compare it.

Van Pencioner

Paladin (993)

afbeelding van Pencioner

04-03-2019, 22:25

l_oliveira wrote:

You guys need to see the Brazilian OPL4 cartridges which went with SANYO CD Player DACs. Almost ZERO noise.

Sample:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17M9M4UlB5xddrWf53GwbL_mLnS...

YAC513 sucks.

Is the Sanyo one pin-to-pin compatible btw?
(i also have read on audio-hw diy forums that yac513 is not good for quality audio...)

Van Meits

Scribe (5650)

afbeelding van Meits

04-03-2019, 22:56

That it was no good was known before the majority of moonsound clones were made. Quite often I've wondered why it's been used again and again.
If it is pin-to-pin compatible I'd like to discover the options of upgrading those cartridges.

Van DRomero

Expert (103)

afbeelding van DRomero

05-03-2019, 09:49

I'm with Meits. If the DAC is pin-2-pin compatible I will replace it if possible.

Im pretty sure most of us will pay an extra bucks for a decent DAC and a noise free OPL4, wondering why it has not been made before.

Van Grauw

Ascended (8515)

afbeelding van Grauw

05-03-2019, 10:38

I think noise is just not a matter of the DAC, but also of the board layout and other components. But I’ll be glad to hear your experiences, if it really helps that sounds like a nice upgrade!

Van yzi

Champion (441)

afbeelding van yzi

06-03-2019, 18:35

Is there any software and music productions that comes close to using _all_ features of a MoonSound/OPL4 at the same time?

Van Grauw

Ascended (8515)

afbeelding van Grauw

06-03-2019, 22:02

VGMPlay? Big smile

Van Manuel

Ascended (15821)

afbeelding van Manuel

06-03-2019, 22:20

Grauw: how heavy is it to control all these channels at once?

Van Parn

Champion (426)

afbeelding van Parn

14-03-2019, 13:41

MoonDriver also comes to mind

Van Grauw

Ascended (8515)

afbeelding van Grauw

14-03-2019, 17:47

Pretty heavy I'd say Smile.

Van hamlet

Scribe (2630)

afbeelding van hamlet

15-03-2019, 05:59

yzi wrote:

Is there any software and music productions that comes close to using _all_ features of a MoonSound/OPL4 at the same time?

Patrick from TNI wrote me:

Quote:

Yes, MoonSound Music Studio http://www.tni.nl/products/ms2.html

Van Meits

Scribe (5650)

afbeelding van Meits

15-03-2019, 11:54

I was thinking of yzi and his milky tracker + msx replayer construction and was about to write that down. But then I found out that would be a rather useless answer.