When we'll see elinks for MSX?

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Van edoz

Prophet (2195)

afbeelding van edoz

14-11-2018, 16:10

Wow! that does indeed a very good job! I was looking in google for converter.. but it seems your search term do a better job Big smile

Results are very clean.

I only wonder how much time it cost to filter this out by a MSX machine. Maybe it is better to have a proxy that is doing that for you. Maybe convert all to DOX including pictures. (So you see some pictures as well) The index of msx.org is after the convert is already 22k when saved in notepad.

I know that prodatron have this streaming inside his browser. So that you only read in memory what you see on the screen. But not sure. I will ask him.

Van Grauw

Ascended (8618)

afbeelding van Grauw

14-11-2018, 18:46

edoz wrote:

I only wonder how much time it cost to filter this out by a MSX machine. Maybe it is better to have a proxy that is doing that for you. Maybe convert all to DOX including pictures. (So you see some pictures as well) The index of msx.org is after the convert is already 22k when saved in notepad.

Given that it can be done lazily (in case you missed it, I edited my previous post a couple of times with some remarks regarding that), I think it wouldn’t cost much time to process the initial screen’s worth of content and render it.

Probably in MSX-DOS, if you’d make a hypothetical tool called "typehtml msxorg.htm", it would output at the same speed as "type msxorg.txt". Mostly due to the fact that DOS text output is so slow that it would be the main bottleneck Smile.

Van edoz

Prophet (2195)

afbeelding van edoz

14-11-2018, 18:45

44 sec. human counts for the converted version
131 sec. for the original html

This is excluded download time.

Van Grauw

Ascended (8618)

afbeelding van Grauw

14-11-2018, 19:07

Using direct communication with the VDP rather than DOS output, both’ll be much much faster than that. You need that for highlighting links etc anyway. My point being that using the same DOS output method you wouldn’t notice the difference between a straight text file or the additional processing of HTML. Anything will be faster than TYPE Smile.

As for downloading, I think it is about as fast as loading from disk so shouldn’t make that big of a difference. And you don’t need to first download the full document before you can see anything, just like loading from disk this too can be processed as the data comes in.

I think within a second you can have something on screen. Page down near immediately because it’s most likely already processed it in the background while your brain is deciding what to do. Going to the bottom of the document takes the full time to download and process of course. Let’s say a couple of seconds for the frontpage of msx.org (46,7 kB).

Luckily HTTP works in such a way that you can request content uncompressed (which uses the gzip algorithm btw), so no need to worry about that.

Van edoz

Prophet (2195)

afbeelding van edoz

14-11-2018, 19:20

I did some test for download in SymbOS..

Downloading took about 9 sec. (for the "normal" html) (47 k)

It's funny :D the type command on the SymbOS shell took 40 sec. ;) now i see dos is slow :D

Take in mind that MSX.ORG is very small .. if i go to NOS.NL it is 110k in size, I have seen indexes that are over 2000k

But, yes.. i think as well you need display it on the screen what was processed.. like the old days :D
Maybe you should have both options... processed by the MSX ... and have a Proxy that does it to Simple HTML to -> DOX format. Dox is compiled and giving some images as well. It should be faster... but i agree that without proxy it is more cool.

Van edoz

Prophet (2195)

afbeelding van edoz

14-11-2018, 19:48

It is not real Wink but it should look a bit like this Big smile Big smile Big smile

Van Grauw

Ascended (8618)

afbeelding van Grauw

15-11-2018, 09:09

Nice mockup Smile.

But as the topic is elinks I wasn't considering image decoding. I think for a first version, being able to browse the real web in a text mode would be nice. Images can be downloaded and viewed externally. I do have an open source PNG viewer Wink. A second version could use a graphic mode and add some CSS support. A third version could add image support.

Van AxelStone

Prophet (2723)

afbeelding van AxelStone

16-11-2018, 16:54

Yeah really nice, but as @Grauw says I think that text based should be more operational. Consider that telnet client is already functional and it's fully text.

Van fr3nd

Expert (92)

afbeelding van fr3nd

17-11-2018, 10:14

hmmm sounds like an interesting idea. Since I'm almost done with msxhub that might be my next project Smile

Van karloch

Prophet (2067)

afbeelding van karloch

17-11-2018, 13:52

Quote:

A proxy (even a Raspberry Pi) that renders the complete page would be necessary to get something usable. Unlike on a modern PC, a fullscreen image of a webpage would be smaller than the source for the same webpage, so even download speed will be faster. You "only" need a proxy that generates an image and some metadata with information about the locations of links and buttons/forms.

I was thinking on the same approach: to have the web page rendered on the server side, just in the same way that Selenium does with his Edge, Firefox or Chrome drivers and then send the bitmap to the MSX. Even so, I do not think this would be fast enough.

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