More info about DUMAS

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Van dhau

Paragon (1570)

afbeelding van dhau

27-04-2006, 20:33

I think most folks who want MSX1 support are from Brazil, where it's nearly impossible to buy MSX2, and MSX Expert 2 upgrade kit cost a lot more then a whole MSX2 computer in other countries.

But you can ignore all brazilians, since they are poor anyway! Everyone else has at least MSX2, most of us have TurboR ST or GT.

Van ARTRAG

Enlighted (6832)

afbeelding van ARTRAG

27-04-2006, 20:40

Integrate in DUMAS a VDP v9958 + 128KVRAM and MSX2 ROMS...
(and a 512kb RAM memorymapper)

I am sure it will be sold also in Brasil to MSX1 user...

Van HansO

Paladin (672)

afbeelding van HansO

27-04-2006, 21:44

Integrate in DUMAS a VDP v9958 + 128KVRAM and MSX2 ROMS...
(and a 512kb RAM memorymapper)

I am sure it will be sold also in Brasil to MSX1 user...

Add a PPI and 8910 and voila: a MSX computer!

Van karloch

Prophet (2157)

afbeelding van karloch

27-04-2006, 21:47

But then again, lots of people saying stuff like it happened before with MSX1Chip won't buy it in the end. Because it always happen the same, people complaining about things and then they won't buy it... but it is cool to say such things, I pressume so.
I couldn't agree more with you.

Van iamweasel2

Paladin (701)

afbeelding van iamweasel2

27-04-2006, 22:00


Is not MSX1 dead, dudes? Tongue

No, My Gradiente DDPLUS is still alive, and I believe many more msx1 machines still work. Smile


I mean... is it so so so so needed that it is MSX1 compatible? Is MSX2 so expensive to still think on having just a MSX1? In fact, you can get your MSX2 working as MSX1... it is just nonsense...

The question is not about MSX2 being cheap or expensive, the question is, if I'm gonna pay for a hardware that I already have in 3 PC's at my home, can't I ask (since it won't cost almost nothing to allow it to run in a MSX1, as it was already discussed) as a condition to buy it (yes, I buy MSX hardware, I have an CIEL MSX2+, a DDX MSX2, 2 Gradiente MSX1 DDPLUS and many cartridges/devices) that it works with my first MSX1 machine, that is the one I like most (and use most of the time)?

I would agree with you if supporting MSX1 would increase the cost beyond what would be acceptable, but that's not the case. And indeed, there are lots of people that doesn't have MSX2 in Brazil and in other places, and they shouldn't be left aside. And it's not about money either. I have a friend that has money to buy many msx machines (he buys lots of msx cartridges in Ebay), but he only likes msx1 machines, because it was what he had when he was a kid. I think he's the only one that would feel happy buying a MSX1Chip. Wink


But then again, lots of people saying stuff like it happened before with MSX1Chip won't buy it in the end. Because it always happen the same, people complaining about things and then they won't buy it... but it is cool to say such things, I pressume so.

Please, don't mix things. MSX1Chip and Dumas are entirely different things. Dumas is bringing something we don't have (we only want to make it even cooler) and MSX1Chip is something that we all already have (we hope it changes in the future), and as it seems, you don't consider worth anymore spending time developing things for it.


Don't feel offended since it is not my goal here. At least we can't decide in the price of new HW, it won't ever be for free... Smile Else it would be nice then nobody would pay anymore for anything related with MSX. Tongue

Don't worry about that, we are just talking, and your post was important in order to make things clear. I am aware that maybe there are among us people that will only complain and not buy anything, but there are many others that want to buy msx hardware, but want to be heard about what they need. I believe if supporting MSX1 is easy and won't cost more, why it shouldn't be done? I know I'm speaking for myself here, but I prefer paying more for a hardware that has what I need to make my msx experience better than buying something cheaper that won't make me happy. That's it.

Best regards,

Mauricio.

Van SaebaMSX

Hero (533)

afbeelding van SaebaMSX

27-04-2006, 22:21

Integrate in DUMAS a VDP v9958 + 128KVRAM and MSX2 ROMS...
(and a 512kb RAM memorymapper)

I am sure it will be sold also in Brasil to MSX1 user...

Add a PPI and 8910 and voila: a MSX computer!

That's true Hans!! Smile

As dhau stated I can understand that MSX1 was sold in Brazil much more than MSX back then. And even maybe they can't afford a MSX2, but still... if DOS2 is working just with a minimum amount of mapped memory then we can't do anything with it. Even making it compatible with MSX1 do we think that it will be more sold? Are not developers just working more because some people are *always* complaining? Of course I am not talking here about brazillian people, most of reactions come from Spain (about MSX1 compatibility) and most of them have MSX2, MSX2+ or MSX TurboR, believe me.

I am not against MSX1, that is for sure (it would be stupid). My 8020 is alive for more than 20 years now. But now, with MSXDev, I think that it is enough.
Even I think that most of people, at least in Europe, will play them in MSX2 or higher to these MSX1 games (ok, sure emulators user win here Tongue).

Talking about memory... are you sure that 4mb is cheaper than 512KB? Sure I think that they will have a reason to do it in this way, I don't think that they are that stupid. Or am I wrong, Konamiman? Tongue

Van SaebaMSX

Hero (533)

afbeelding van SaebaMSX

27-04-2006, 22:48


No, My Gradiente DDPLUS is still alive, and I believe many more msx1 machines still work. Smile

Congrats then. All my MSX's are alive, but my MSX1 is inside a box. Tongue


The question is not about MSX2 being cheap or expensive, the question is, if I'm gonna pay for a hardware that I already have in 3 PC's at my home, can't I ask (since it won't cost almost nothing to allow it to run in a MSX1, as it was already discussed) as a condition to buy it (yes, I buy MSX hardware, I have an CIEL MSX2+, a DDX MSX2, 2 Gradiente MSX1 DDPLUS and many cartridges/devices) that it works with my first MSX1 machine, that is the one I like most (and use most of the time)?

Well, I do prefer to take profit of the benefits that turboR offers me. I could use an emulator to do it even faster, but I just prefer the real thing.


I would agree with you if supporting MSX1 would increase the cost beyond what would be acceptable, but that's not the case. And indeed, there are lots of people that doesn't have MSX2 in Brazil and in other places, and they shouldn't be left aside. And it's not about money either. I have a friend that has money to buy many msx machines (he buys lots of msx cartridges in Ebay), but he only likes msx1 machines, because it was what he had when he was a kid. I think he's the only one that would feel happy buying a MSX1Chip. Wink

The problem here is not Dumas but DOS2. But you can always use a hack of that DOS2, of course. Wink
At least your friend is nice, he spends his money in his hobbies, that is good. Smile


Please, don't mix things. MSX1Chip and Dumas are entirely different things. Dumas is bringing something we don't have (we only want to make it even cooler) and MSX1Chip is something that we all already have (we hope it changes in the future), and as it seems, you don't consider worth anymore spending time developing things for it.

Yes, they are, but think about it. MSX1Chip offers you an SD card with megascsi implementation, you did not have it before. So it is new. Tongue
MSX1Chip is something that we already have but with new style, new components... Smile Maybe in Brazil people still develop for MSX, in Spain we don't have that luck last times (besides of Kralizec, MSXDev contestants or Matra).


Don't worry about that, we are just talking, and your post was important in order to make things clear. I am aware that maybe there are among us people that will only complain and not buy anything, but there are many others that want to buy msx hardware, but want to be heard about what they need. I believe if supporting MSX1 is easy and won't cost more, why it shouldn't be done? I know I'm speaking for myself here, but I prefer paying more for a hardware that has what I need to make my msx experience better than buying something cheaper that won't make me happy. That's it.

You have your reasons, but offer a good quality cart for 120 euros (around 150 US$). I don't think that most of people here will pay for it. If they don't pay for a game, then imagine... Tongue
I don't know the real price of Dumas, but if it will have real professional quality then it is not going to be cheap, I pressume.

Maybe it is just me. I am disappointed when I visit fairs, sometimes I can't understand why people work hard... Crying

Van sunrise

Paragon (1091)

afbeelding van sunrise

28-04-2006, 07:19

I made the remark about the memory. And that Saeba is true. Look you had to know where to find and take that you need e.g. 8 Chips van 64K and it takes a lot space also ,imagine.

Van iamweasel2

Paladin (701)

afbeelding van iamweasel2

28-04-2006, 17:58

Well, I believe having memory in Dumas is important for 3 reasons:

1) There are MSX2 machines that doesn't have memory mapper or have just 256kb ram. If Dumas has 512 or more RAM, developers will know that this memory is available, and can make ethernet and USB apps that take advantage of this RAM;
2) With memory mapper, Dumas will work with msx1 machines, which increases the potential sales of the product;
3) As a side effect, it will also allow people to use software/hardware that requires mapper, like IDE. Memory mapper cartridges aren't easy to find, so by having mapper, Dumas will have its value increased to msx users.

Van iamweasel2

Paladin (701)

afbeelding van iamweasel2

29-04-2006, 03:43


Well, I do prefer to take profit of the benefits that turboR offers me. I could use an emulator to do it even faster, but I just prefer the real thing.

I see your point. Well, since I never had a Turbo-R in the old days, I stick to MSX2+. I must admit I have some problems using a Turbo-R (that's why I never bought one) because when I see it, I always think about what it should have been. Too many bad decisions were made in the old days, what is really bad, because MSX could had a better future if things were done right.


The problem here is not Dumas but DOS2. But you can always use a hack of that DOS2, of course. Wink

Yes, that's the idea. Smile


At least your friend is nice, he spends his money in his hobbies, that is good. Smile

Indeed. Smile


Yes, they are, but think about it. MSX1Chip offers you an SD card with megascsi
implementation, you did not have it before. So it is new. Tongue

Ok, now you pulled things too far. Wink


MSX1Chip is something that we already have but with new style, new components... Smile Maybe in Brazil people still develop for MSX, in Spain we don't have that luck last times (besides of Kralizec, MSXDev contestants or Matra).

Just to make things clear, I pretend to buy OCM, but I want it to be a MSX3, or at least a MSX2 with more speed or more resources, not just a regular MSX. We waited almost 15 years for it, so it should give us something beyond Turbo-R.


You have your reasons, but offer a good quality cart for 120 euros (around 150 US$). I don't think that most of people here will pay for it. If they don't pay for a game, then imagine... Tongue
I don't know the real price of Dumas, but if it will have real professional quality then it is not going to be cheap, I pressume.

Well, maybe a solution would be to make mapper an option, if you don't want it, it would cost less money. I would prefer with Mapper, but others that don't need MSX1 compatibility and already have mapper (like you, I presume) could buy it without mapper. It would be good to hear what the developers think about this...


Maybe it is just me. I am disappointed when I visit fairs, sometimes I can't understand why people work hard... Crying

I know what you mean. But they work hard because they have fun building/coding msx stuff, and having fun is a payment as well (at least it is to me). Smile

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