supermario world for msx

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Van assembler

Champion (378)

afbeelding van assembler

27-05-2011, 16:46

It's possible to improve it, but enough good to be MSX1 (of course, no parallax, no smooth scroll)

Van Paulbrk

Hero (611)

afbeelding van Paulbrk

27-05-2011, 17:06

MSX2 is much better, sorry for the MSX1 users. Now its time for MSX2 system.

Van assembler

Champion (378)

afbeelding van assembler

27-05-2011, 17:30

Of course. MSX2 is much better, but even in the first "MSX times" there were space for MSX and MSX2 games.

Big smile

Van hit9918

Prophet (2868)

afbeelding van hit9918

27-05-2011, 18:12

@MäSäXi: Come on!
@norakomi: MSX1 is so last season, show the true colors of MSX, go for it!


I offer a solution.

I agree with MäSäXi that loads games are still to be done on MSX 1, doing smoothscrolling Big smile
A gradius, a goblins, Ikari and all that Big smile

And now the surprise statement from the MSX 1 dude:

The MSX2 must be supported much more! As you said: "show the true colors of MSX". And that would mean: no more screen 4! Do at least with screen 5 and no wobbleborders.

As the pic is in screen 4, the MSX 1 fan thinks: hey, except palette my machine does the same Wink So dont be surprised about MSX 1 requests then.

And as I got an MSX 1 smoothscroll obsession, what first run my head when I saw the screenshot was: Hey, those nice ground tiles can be made smoothscrolling on MSX 1 Big smile Even if one does not take the smoothscroll effort, just a couple of lines of code for a jumpscroller could make this game work on MSX 1 Tongue

All these thoughts happened because it is screen 4.

I am not blaming norakomi, because he heard programmers think screen 5 is trouble. Well my suggestion for the hardcore MSX2 fan is this rule:

screen 4 is evil. The effort to program screen 5 must be taken.
For games with low scrollspeed like gradius, 256 colors screen 8 must be considered.

Van Huey

Prophet (2644)

afbeelding van Huey

27-05-2011, 18:17


Van Manuel

Ascended (15839)

afbeelding van Manuel

27-05-2011, 18:54

I 2nd that, Huey.... sc4 has great potential.... and has also already proven to be great. Some of the best MSX2 games run on sc4.

Van hit9918

Prophet (2868)

afbeelding van hit9918

27-05-2011, 19:30

so the screen needs to be able to scroll at different speeds,
varying from 1 pix per frame to 3 or 4 pixels per frame.
nothing works better than sc4 in that situation.

blitter on screen 5 can do 2 pixel / second, how about doubling this performance:

The cpu port 0x98 bandwidth is about same as the blitter. As the blitter copies, the cpu can add the same amount of work. Then you need a copy of the tiles in RAM.

If I remember right, PingPongs research indicates that port 0x98 is totaly separate gear, i.e. things will not affect each other and not slow each other down.

outi with 18 cycles does 198333 bytes per second. is 396666 pixels per second.

that / 60 * 16 / 256 / 212 = 1.94 , i.e. almost 2 pixels/frame ballpark for fullscreen is the power of the cpu alone.

I remember a "176 lines" figure for the blitter (is blitter slower than cpu?). So with a 176 line figure on the cpu, we got 83% load.

Now bring in the differential method into all that - the gfx style is very repetitive - and the whole thing looks doable?

Like, differential + blitter + cpu in parallel = mario on screen 5 Smile

Van hit9918

Prophet (2868)

afbeelding van hit9918

27-05-2011, 20:42

I 2nd that, Huey.... sc4 has great potential.... and has also already proven to be great. Some of the best MSX2 games run on sc4.

Yes, I know! It has proven awesome with more colors in 16x16 pixels than the NES, like for example Nemesis 2! Yes, that was screen 4, with an MSX 1 palette! Wink

I am not saying screen 4 is bad, I am saying MSX2 got screen 5 which is much better:

#1 even better graphics #2 the wobbleborder fix on screen 4 takes 2 sprites of 8 i.e. 25% bandwidth,
while screen 5 goes with full sprite power.

Van JohnHassink

Ambassador (5417)

afbeelding van JohnHassink

27-05-2011, 21:27

Well, I guess it depends on your desired end result I guess.
Screen 4 (tile mode) has some advantages over screen 5 (bitmap mode) and vice versa.
Also, you know there's actually more to screen 4 than just a screen 2 with more sprites. Tongue

Regarding the MSX1/MSX2 stuff - I can understand the sentiment of the MSX2 fans.
In the past years we already had loooooaaaaads of new MSX1 games and there's still no end to that in sight.
That's a really good thing, but MSX2 could have a little chance too. A little place in the sun. Wink

Van pitpan

Prophet (3131)

afbeelding van pitpan

27-05-2011, 21:39

I really don't care if it is an MSX1 or MSX2 game, as far as it becomes a real game. At the moment, I only see some graphic drafts. You need to move it first Wink Because of that, I also don't care if it has omnidirectional scroll, smooth scroll, blockyscroll, paralax or even not scroll at all, as far as it is playable.

Do you get my point? Code it first. The one who codes it will be sovereign to decide the required hardware, whether a MSX1 with 8 KB RAM or a dual CPU i7 computer. As far as the coder won't make a living out of coding MSX games, it's up to him to decide.

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