Bazix reveals more info on One Chip MSX

by Latok on 19-09-2005, 00:17
Topic: MSX Revival
Languages:

Source: Bazix

On the Tokyo GameShow, the One Chip MSX was on display in one of the booths of the organization of the Tokyo GameShow: CESA (Computer Entertainment Software Association). We reported about this earlier already.

Just now, Bazix has revealed some more info regarding the One Chip MSX. According to her website, the MSX Association is currently investigating the possibilities of opening a second pre order period for the One Chip MSX. We assume we must relate this investigation to the need of a second partner, other than ASCII, needed to actually start producing the device. Preceding the final decision on this matter, several improvements have been announced to the design of the One Chip MSX:

  • MSX2 compatibility by default
  • 2 MSX cartridge slots
  • An extra flashrom containing the default MSX2 configuration

The last improvement is very useful. When you have updated the VHDL code incorrectly, it is aways possible to return to a standard MSX2 configuration without the need of any other equipment.

Provided that the aforementioned investigations will lead to a new pre ordering period, the One Chip MSX featuring these improvements is expected to be available on pre order during the fourth quarter of 2005 throughout the first quarter of 2006. The price is expected to remain the same as the initial offer (€ 158.83 ex. VAT). Bazix hopes to be able to make more announcements on this topic in the near future.

Relevant link: Bazix notices

Comments (163)

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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19-09-2005, 01:18

HELLO I AM JOSE FROM VALENCIA I DO NOT SEE IF MSX IS HAS NO CASETTE PORT SO NOT REAL MSX? WTF???

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

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19-09-2005, 08:11

Ehum, poke-1,170... it is NOT a real MSX. In fact, is an MSX on an FPGA with *nearly* full MSX compatibility, with some thing missing and some others added.

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

19-09-2005, 09:33

I think Jose is right! Where is the cassette port!

By Manuel

Ascended (18783)

Manuel's picture

19-09-2005, 09:46

This sounds great!!!

(but where is the cassette port?? Tongue )

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6843)

ARTRAG's picture

19-09-2005, 10:28

who cares about the cassette!
I want the msx2 the disk dirive!
Smile

By sjoerd

Hero (602)

sjoerd's picture

19-09-2005, 12:27

They should make it a TurboR, then noone can complain about the cassetteport. Smile

By meits

Scribe (6499)

meits's picture

19-09-2005, 12:30

I want to record the beep on a cassettetape... I demand a cassetteport...

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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19-09-2005, 12:39

I wanna be able to save and play Arkanoid 2 stages...
I wanna be able to save and play Metal Gear 1 situations...

So don't try to stop us complaining about the missing cassette port, since the MSX standard lists it as a requirement to enable the system to be called MSX in the first place... and as long as that isn't present it can't be called an MSX Tongue

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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19-09-2005, 12:40

everybody complaining about people complaining about a missing cassette port have one thing in common... they apparently never used cassettes in the first place TongueTongue

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

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19-09-2005, 12:46

But you already have an msx, and prolly a datarec. play those games on *that* system then.. why is it so important to play those games on the newest 2005/2006-system then when you (1) can play those games on your current MSX, (2) can play those games in any emu supporting some sorta tape-emulation (or simply savestates!) and (3) prolly can make VHDL that functions as tape-storage on the SD card..

btw, I've a datarec.. and boy did it suck..

And indeed, let's call it turbo-R instead Big smile

By selios2000

Hero (526)

selios2000's picture

19-09-2005, 12:52

hahaahaha. There will be a new "MSX" that suits everyone's needs?? seems not!!
I'm not gonna buy it (I have more important things to care about), but I think that THIS CURRENT configuration is quite good.
Hope this project will see the light
PD: WOuld be really nice to emulate SCC, FM, MM, and Moonsound!

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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19-09-2005, 13:25

since the MSX standard lists it as a requirement to enable the system to be called MSX in the first place

good thing there's something called evolution bifi Wink
I suppose you still listen to 8 tracks and you're on dial up? Big smile
standard is defined by the technology of that time...I don't think nishii would prefer a cassette port
over USB these days ^_^

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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19-09-2005, 13:30

is that R in turbo R from ren sha? or?
but yeah, cassettes sure suck...
I don't think c64 users nowadays use it,they have the 1541 diskdrive
cassettes are soooo 80's Big smile

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

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19-09-2005, 13:43

cynical bastard ^_^

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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19-09-2005, 15:04

MSX is soooo 80's Tongue

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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19-09-2005, 15:11

if they wanted to evolve MSX with the OCM, they wouldn't have gone for MSX1, MSX2, MSX2+ or MSXturboR. They just would've gone for the next generation of MSX...

The choice for doing MSX1, MSX2 or MSX2+ in the OCM should include everything, including the cassette port. It has ziltch to do with evolving the way it's done now. And why wouldn't Nishi be very opportunistic about a cassette port on USB? Though he would've probably chosen for the seperate cassette port anyway Wink

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

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19-09-2005, 15:34

BiFi, this is the amateur revival. It's not the idea that a new MSX configuration is being stuffed down our throats. They want further MSX configurations to breed from within the community itself! Therefor you HAVE to give them a device to work with. This is the device. And I'm happy it's MSX2 configged out-of-the-box, makes the thing useful, even in its current status.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

19-09-2005, 15:49

They want further MSX configurations to breed from within the community itself! Therefor you HAVE to give them a device to work with.
Then, they did strange policy upto now! Did they already told us about the licence the MSX-VHDL-code will be released? ''Therefor you HAVE to give ...'': You? We? -- Or the MSX Association?

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

19-09-2005, 15:55

Tanni, the MSX-VHDL-code licensing is very important indeed. And I hope I won't be disappointed in this matter. And yes, I too hope to hear more info regarding this issue as soon as possible.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

19-09-2005, 16:21

Latok, If I understand you correctly, you mean that MSX Association wants the community to come up with our own MSX extensions for the OCM and that for this reasons, MSX Association needs to give us the OCM? If so, then, what will be with this community-made extensions? Are they for free, i.e. may they be spread throughout the community without copyright restrictions? This issues should be made clear before proceeding, before trying to market such a product.

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

19-09-2005, 16:26

Well, it's what I assume, to be honest, yes. Else it indeed would look like people would want to profit from work which is being carried out by pure amateurs, for the love of their system. That would be kinda strange, wouldn't it?

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

19-09-2005, 16:53

Yes, Latok, that's exactly the point. Do you remember, I once posted a text ''Raising the MSX-tree'' and some other postings in MAF. In these texts, I suggested some possible proceedings on that issue.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

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19-09-2005, 16:55

Correction: I meant ''approaches'' not ''proceedings''!

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6221)

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19-09-2005, 17:41

The choice for doing MSX1, MSX2 or MSX2+ in the OCM should include everything, including the cassette port.

Although I don't like tapes, I completely agree with BiFi.

Let's take an comparison : as the OCM is always presented as an hardware emulator, it should be like the best software emulators (blueMSX and openMSX) that have support for CAS files in all MSX1, MSX2 and MSX2+ machines.

By Leo

Paragon (1236)

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19-09-2005, 18:26

Will they mantain a 5000 order unit as minimum , will they higher or lower it ?

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

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19-09-2005, 18:34

I piss on the cassete port we had the discusion already...... btw finaly they have listened to the msx scene and now its msx2 by default Smile d\(^_^)/b way to go Smile

By smart duck

Master (153)

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19-09-2005, 18:58

Just invested in a Nintendo DS, I'll wait for the first end product/system.

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

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19-09-2005, 19:02

The +/- 12v is still an issue. I hope that will be included as well Smile

By Manuel

Ascended (18783)

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19-09-2005, 23:04

For clarity: I was being cynical. I don't give a damn if it doesn't have cassetteport. I love my turboR and I haven't missed the cassette port at all! Smile

By poke-1,170

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19-09-2005, 23:36

me too Smile it such a funny issue this whole cassette port hahaha !Evil

By wolf_

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19-09-2005, 23:55

I'd feel a bit ashamed walking into a shop asking for an empty tape, esp when I'm also asking for a spindle o' DVD+ . ^_^

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 01:38

someone on micromusic who had an amstrad with tapedeck wrote:

I used to have one when i was a kid, and i tried to make a "game/program" by taking the mouthpiece bit off a recorder (the school instrument) and recording myself making "WEEEEE BIBLBIBLBIBLBEEEEE..." noises through it because it sounded the same as a "loading game"!

Didnt work though.

By SLotman

Paragon (1240)

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20-09-2005, 06:31

Besides tha cassette issue, finally we have msx2 configuration... my only worry is that maybe in end 2005/2006 would be too late for that...

By selios2000

Hero (526)

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20-09-2005, 08:34

it is not already too late??

By msd

Paragon (1472)

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20-09-2005, 08:57

To all tape lovers... just don't buy a 1cm and . Bifi:I will come to collect your turbo r. It has no cass port so the machine is not usefull for you.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

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20-09-2005, 10:44

Oh, funny... Jose from Valencia... didn't get that... just a question, poke: what was your intention?. To try to make jokes about spanish users or what?. People wanting an MSX with tape io ports are idiots or what?.

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

20-09-2005, 10:49

since a longtime I agree with Latok, about the +12 en -12v
But why make people such a noice about paying 22 euro more for an upgrade to msx2.
Now you get it from default yes, but it was obvious that it should contain msx2 later on.
What about the fact that it contains bugs maybe, thought about that.
A second cartridgeslot was also obvious and isnot new as stated

But to satisfy all. Why we donot make an european version with cassetteport, provided BIFI writes the VHDL code for it LOL!

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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20-09-2005, 10:54

nice idea, provided I know how to write VHDL Wink I'm sure there are people far more capable than I of writing such a support...

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

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20-09-2005, 10:56

Maybe time to invest some time in itTongue

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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20-09-2005, 10:56

msd, you can try... though fail misserably... There is support for tapes on MSXturboR lately, remember (of which one is developed by me, though not yet released). besides, if you want an MSXturboR, happy bidding on ebay or something Wink

By msd

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20-09-2005, 12:08

BiFi: I new that. The remarks about the cas are just plain stupid. Just stop complaining about it.

By poke-1,170

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20-09-2005, 12:11

haha no viejo, I just noticed that it's mainly people NOT from holland who want cassette ports.
Maybe dutch were more lucky with having philips and sony...for some reason dutch don't realy
care for casports. Others seem to for some strange reason

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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20-09-2005, 12:17

if there is SOME cassette support (even some emulation to enable such things as game saving) I agree, but sofar I haven't read anything which might even remotely point to that possibility.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

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20-09-2005, 12:18

Smile np, poke. For example, I have +150 tapes... so you can imagine Smile

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 12:22

hahaha errr.....yes ^_^ now there you have a problem ,I understand...
can't capture it as audio files?

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 12:23

or,if it's for games...I'm sure there's a link that should not be shared...
then comes a good question:if you have the original,are you allowed to have a
rom dump for preserving your games?

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

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20-09-2005, 12:44

woa, that's another "heavy" discussion Big smile. IMHO yes, but who knows, I'm not a lawyer Smile

By wolf_

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20-09-2005, 12:46

uh ok, viejo: just what I wrote at the start of this thread: you *already have* an MSX which supports cas. You won't sell this MSX, won't you? Why do you find it so important to have the 1cm having a cas-port? (and don't come up with 'MSX-standard', because that's ultimately LAME) You can use the new technology (SD card) for all your new projects, and keep the old MSX for your cas-stuff. Gradually you might even convert all the tapes so you can use them with disks, SD, ..

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 13:11

but,to stay on topic a little more: it's good to see the preorder period extended to 2006 Smile

By snout

Ascended (15187)

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20-09-2005, 13:25

The 'evolution' of the MSX standard is certainly there, BiFi, even out of the box. Just as was the case with the turboR -and I never heard anyone complain about that- we lost a cassette port for more than understandable reasons, but we gained an MSX2 with lots of memory, a hot-swappable FAT16 compatible (no patch needed!) SD card slot, FM and SCC in stereo and -most importantly- a design that allows any One Chip MSX owner to improve the performance of the One Chip MSX. The examples of relatively simple improvements were mentioned often enough. Faster Z80? More sprites? Higher resolutions? MSX2+ hardware scrolling? The default configuration of the One Chip MSX is just the starting point for the further evolution of the MSX standard.

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 13:48

true...if it wasn't for evolution, we'd still be stuck with the old msx (1)
and again, standards are based on the technology of the time,
time changes,demands change, and so the standards shift.

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

20-09-2005, 13:51

poke &hff,&haaa, YES, it is allowed to make a copy of your original for your own preservation. It's not only allowed, it is also a RIGHT you have. That opens a discussion on copy protections which make it impossible to make this preservation copy and therefor, are in conflict with this right you have.....Interesting stuff Smile

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 13:53

sure...as long as you don't share I suppose...
creative commons,anyone Wink

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

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20-09-2005, 13:58

Indeed, downloading MP3's is also legal, as long as you don't share them, indeed ^_^

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 14:25

cool, sharing needles is also a good plan Wink

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

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20-09-2005, 16:19

that's printer needles Big smile

By Tanni

Hero (556)

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20-09-2005, 16:26

uh ok, viejo: just what I wrote at the start of this thread: you *already have* an MSX which supports cas. You won't sell this MSX, won't you? Why do you find it so important to have the 1cm having a cas-port? (and don't come up with 'MSX-standard', because that's ultimately LAME) You can use the new technology (SD card) for all your new projects, and keep the old MSX for your cas-stuff. Gradually you might even convert all the tapes so you can use them with disks, SD, ..

wolf_: To ''already have'' an MSX which supports cas is not the point, this MSX must still work, too! To be on the ''secure side'', a cas port should be included in the OCM! This would certainly be only a few euros more. Even if I have only a few cassettes, I support the OCM having a cas port. From a certain point of view, it's important to properly cope with that 'MSX-Standard' issue: If there should be future MSX computers beyond the OCM, the standard could be rewritten to omit the cas port. But, compatibility MUST be kept: This could be done by providing some adaptors. One reason for that what is called ''retrocomputing'' or ''retrogaming'' nowadays, is to preserve the classical homecomputers and all of the issues concernig them, so also the cas port. We should open a threat for discussing this issue. Ok?

By viejo_archivero

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20-09-2005, 16:35

Wolf_: Well, I'm not into the MSX for its possible evolution. I'm here beacuse years ago I played tons of nice games using a superb computer,those nostalgic moments came to my mind, and now I'm enjoying it again, even developing for it. Again, enjoying THAT computer I HAD in the past: no SD-cards, no diskette, etc... So the fact is not that the ocm must have this or that: perhaps the ocm is not a gadget made for me Wink. I really love the old MSX1 feelin'... you prefer the TurboR one. But that's ok, people into the C64 aren't necessary AMIGA users, ya know Smile

By wolf_

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20-09-2005, 16:37

be my guest..

just realise that every 1cm-newspost with 'specifications' as subject, will end in the inevitable casette-discussion anyway Tongue

By wolf_

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20-09-2005, 16:40

(my prev. reply was a reply @ Tanni)

Viejo: you would have the same nostalgia feeling if all msx computers had a diskdrive by default, meaning that the storage-medium was only there because of the time being, not because it was so important to the computer itself.

So, you're saying you prefer to wait minutes on something that could be loaded in seconds, just for that nostalgia-feeling??

By jltursan

Prophet (2619)

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20-09-2005, 17:19

@_Wolf:You got the point!. As Tanni says "retrocomputing" is full filled with all of this "nostalgia-feeling", and I'm not talking only of MSX, what's the reason for develop all those .TAP, .TZX, .T64 and so on in the emulators scene?, of course you can use tricks to speed-up the "fake" tape-loading; but I'm sure that there are people who likes to wait and even hear the bleeepbleeep! Smile
It's like the floppy sound, BlueMSX has recently added this feature and I love it, AMIGA emulator WinUAE does the same....some people could find it annoying; but some others could find it ok.

By viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

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20-09-2005, 18:36

Wolf_: [o_o] "Anyway, I will steal those smiley tapes, if you won't use them, muahaha!"

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

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20-09-2005, 18:42

For nostalgia, I have my real MSX computers. The OCM is for the future.

By wolf_

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20-09-2005, 18:47

indeed..

Let's say that if ppl want to wait on tapes for whatever reason, there already *is* a computer for that: the current crop o' MSX'es minus the tR. It's not like when ppl buy a 1cm that no-one can play tapes anymore.. ofcourse you can: on your old MSX..

So except for software issues (trying to access the cas port) I still don't see why the 1cm should have a cas-port.

Without disturbing the discussion, but I'm pretty sure that *if* the 1cm will be made, there's NOT going to be ANY physical cas-port on it..

By flyguille

Prophet (3028)

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20-09-2005, 19:05

now I am sure... i will reserved/buy one as fast as there is a second reservation's list.... Smile

with those features now it worth the money!

By pitpan

Prophet (3152)

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20-09-2005, 20:05

I'll continue supporting tape format and cassette interface, that's all I can say. Call it barebone standard if you want to, but this is what I used when I was a kid and what I'm currently using. Probably if I could have got a disk drive back in the 80s I wouldn't be able to see to point about cassettes today.

It's part of the MSX legacy, isn't it?

By msd

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20-09-2005, 20:21

you can still run most of the games without one.. so what's the problem

By djh1697

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20-09-2005, 20:59

Maybe some bright spark could design a cartridge with a cassette porton it, then we could also use tapes on the TurboR, would there be a demand for such a product? would it need +/- 12v to work?

If you are so bothered about cassettes then get an interface made?

By msd

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20-09-2005, 22:16

I don't think people conciderd to be bright sparks will think that is a good idea Tongue

By spl

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20-09-2005, 22:34

NOW.... I WANT A MSX IN ONE CHIP! Big smile

By Edwin

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20-09-2005, 22:39

The tape connection should be really simple to make. There are plenty of free IO pins, so on the hardware side its as simple as making a conversion from a cassette port to the free IO pins. Which are probably available in something similar to an IDE connector (which is nothing more than a row of jumpers really).

On the VHDL side it should not be a big problem either. With a bit of luck most of the stuff is already implemented in the PSG VHDL and it's just adding a bit of routing to the right pins.

I actually find it positive that it's not there. It leaves more free IO pins to play around with. In fact, I'm still hoping that the designers will move all external connectors to a separate PCB so you can actually take it off and have almost every IO pin at your disposal!

By Tanni

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21-09-2005, 16:29

Let's say that if ppl want to wait on tapes for whatever reason, there already *is* a computer for that: the current crop o' MSX'es minus the tR. It's not like when ppl buy a 1cm that no-one can play tapes anymore.. ofcourse you can: on your old MSX..

wolf_: face the fact that even an old MSX can get defective sometime!

By wolf_

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21-09-2005, 16:32

wolf_: face the fact that even an old MSX can get defective sometime!

yes.. same story for tapes and datarecorders.. whadayagonna do then? buy a 'new' datarec, and buy the cassettegames 'new'?

By Tanni

Hero (556)

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21-09-2005, 16:39

Edwin: See this picture: www.msx.org/photo305gal66.html

By Tanni

Hero (556)

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21-09-2005, 16:43

Yes, wolf_, but as long as tapes are available on the market, you can resave the contents of an old tape to a new one.

By wolf_

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21-09-2005, 16:55

It's a matter of years.. and you can't get tapes anymore. Heck, eventually even HD-disks will get obsolete, let alone DD-disks.

But we can jump high or low on the subject, except for 3rd-party USB-cas-extensions, vhdl-code simulating tape on SD-cards, or stuff like this, I don't expect any cas-connector on the 1cm once it's out.

But ofcourse you could send a protest-email to MSXA in JP..

Or.. do snailmail instead.. that's more nostalic :P
(not to mention travelling with the Orient-Express and additional means of transport)

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

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21-09-2005, 17:51

Evil for the one's who like to w8 long times with tape games play them on a msx1 Evil
who wants to wait knowdays ......... if i could choose between tape or a megascsi..... i would go for the last medium......... fast and secure...... i gonna buy the 1chMSX2 Smile
im so happy that it will be msx2 know instead of msx1..... Smile

By Tanni

Hero (556)

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21-09-2005, 17:51

Are you sure that tapes or cassettes aren't available anymore? Aren't they still used for music recording? Ok, maybe once also music will only be recorded on digital media. But why not keeping both possibilities? Why should analog technology die out? There are still people who like the sound of ''Röhrenverstärker'', amplifiers built on evacuated glass tubes. Yes, nowadays, you can emulate this sound on digital equipement!

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

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21-09-2005, 18:25

Well, I do prefer vinyl recordings above cd audio Smile

By wolf_

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21-09-2005, 18:53

Are you sure that tapes or cassettes aren't available anymore?

'eventually'.. which I meant with "matter of years"

anyway.. doesn't change a bit to the subject, doesn't it? The 1cm won't have a cas-connector out of the box I'm sure.. wanna bet? Tongue

Latok: vinyl can't really be compared.. when you start the vinyl, it already plays... tape@msx doesn't give you anything until it's done loading..

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

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21-09-2005, 18:56

Latok: those vinyl recordings do have something...
w0lf: AFAIK there are no games released on vinyl...

By Serico

Master (151)

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21-09-2005, 18:59

I want the 14-pin printer connector on the OCM.
I have a nice VW0030 matrix printer i want to use with the OCM Tongue
Maybe MSXA can do that for me...

By wolf_

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21-09-2005, 19:02

w0lf: AFAIK there are no games released on vinyl...

It was not relevant anyway. Latok compared analogue sound to digital sound thus stating that old technology isn't always bad. I only pointed out that he's talking audio then, not software. Software is software, it doesn't matter whether it comes from tape, disk, ROM, SD etc. Which is exactly why this is all so much of a waste of time.

By Serico

Master (151)

Serico's picture

21-09-2005, 19:03

Darn, reminds me: i am out of those ink-ribbons Sad
(last one had expire date 22-04-1986 on it)
So they just have to produce some of them as well Tongue

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

21-09-2005, 19:15

And yes, Serico has a point there.

Isn't it nostalgia to print black/white disk-labels on your blocky matrix printer, designed in Dynamic Publisher? Hence, the 1cm should support a printer-port Tongue

*cough*

You know what's *really* required? A knob or fader on the 1cm-casing, for autofire Tongue Or a pause-button, like on the tR.

By djh1697

Paragon (1635)

djh1697's picture

21-09-2005, 19:59

OCM does support printer, how do you connect a modern printer to a PC ? though a USB port! all it needs is someone to write some VHDL code! USB to parallel printer cables are avaliable, I dont really think this is a great issue.

Software that checks for a live printer port using the INP(&h90) command will have a problem, but then ASCII have always maintained that a BIOS routine should be used rather than accessing the ports directly.... opps! Time for yet another software rewrite! Since the OCM allows you to reprogram the code VHDL code from MSXDOS a suitable program should be able to written using VHDL code to connect a printer via USB. It should be possible to get alternative printer drivers for the OCM, an interesting thought?

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

21-09-2005, 20:27

actually, it seems the printer port was optional to the MSX standard. There were cartridges released with a printer port.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

21-09-2005, 20:38

Whether you can buy parallel->usb converters or whatever isn't even the issue. The question is: would ANYone connect his old MSX matrixprinter to the 1cm that way, and seriously use it?

By Serico

Master (151)

Serico's picture

21-09-2005, 20:43

At least wolf_ understands me... Smile
Although the DP "stempels" is a great idea Tongue

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

21-09-2005, 20:53

I don't think ppl are really concerned about genuine MSX-printers that much ^_^

By djh1697

Paragon (1635)

djh1697's picture

21-09-2005, 23:06

I said driver, so you could have a driver for say a Canon, IBM, HP, etc

just like in wondows ?

By pitpan

Prophet (3152)

pitpan's picture

21-09-2005, 23:09

I strongly recommend you to upgrade your PC systems with this ultimate technology. :P

By POISONIC

Paladin (1012)

POISONIC's picture

21-09-2005, 23:52

i recoment a vinyl player for 1chmsx Wink

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

22-09-2005, 09:28

pitpan, look at wolf's reaction on September 21 2005, 16:55. Or here ^_^

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

22-09-2005, 11:25

ptipan: It looks quite fine.

By spl

Paragon (1470)

spl's picture

22-09-2005, 11:59

Actually, being more ON-TOPIC and more serious Tongue , I want to say that NOW for me, MSX IN ONE CHIP is a "must have". I know that it's not 100% MSX without tape port (Actually, when you want to test some beta code or beta roms, it's very practical), but this new improvements have chanched me my own view about MSX IN ONE CHIP. I wanted MSX 2 support and 2 slots, and there are now.

HOPE, that there will be some "disk emulator" because as you know, PRO TRACKER only runs from it's disk because it's special configuration. Also, it will be able to run MSX-DOS 1 for some games and apps (some compilations I have on disk)

Now, I will wait for a new pre-order... or for the selling. I think that MSXA and new partner must produce this new and better MSX IN ONE CHIP without PRE-ORDER.

Yours,

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

22-09-2005, 12:07

spl, I believe the OCM has MEGA-SCSI built in, which means you can run diskimages without any problem. Also, its adapted MSXDOS with FAT16 support is really really cool SmileSmileSmile

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

22-09-2005, 12:08


Are you sure that tapes or cassettes aren't available anymore?

'eventually'.. which I meant with "matter of years"

But today, you can still get them?

wolf_, from a certain point of view, you are exactly right with your opinion concerning the cas port. The interesting thing is, that there are always other points of views possible! Taking them into account will make things more sophisticated, more ''thought through'' more thrilling, more fascinating ... Decisions made on taking into account of many points of views are always better than decisions made on just one point of view. So, what would be the disadvantage of having a cas port on the OCM? It would cost a little more. It would use a few pins more, it would occupy a few CLBs more. That's all. If you consider MSX as a system compared to other systems from the 80th, you will find that MSX was more ''thought through'', more open to future expansions than theses other systems. But now, we're not at the beginning, so we have a past, a history of our system. We should not get in contradiction to that past. You maybe will be right with your opinion, that cas port will only be used by a very small group of people nowadays. But how can you know? Maybe with the revival, cas usage will increase for nostalgical reasons? While loading, you can do other things. See project EGG: They consider the 8-bit-games as cultural heritage and try to keep or to reconstruct them. Why not also keeping and reconstructing hardware? Even a tape is part of that heritage. Another point of view: Maybe sometime, there will be no moving parts on a computer anymore, no motors driving disks or CDs, but sensor keys, voice input, maybe thought input, ... It would be modern, yes, but do you really think that's better? Human beings need sensory input, they need to feel the keyboard, hear the motor of the disk or CD, need to see interferences on the TV set while saving or loading a file or even while accessing the video RAM, need to see the cassette turning. Human beings need some feedback on that what they do, remember the beep sound when pressing a key on a computer like the VZ200 with rubber keyboard. I have a Hitachi cassette recorder form 1981. I like the switches to use. It feels good to turn e.g. Dolby on or off. Or, think of an old radio set with the green light of the evacuated glass tube for the amplifier: It's a wonderful colour. There's a perceivable click if you turn it on. That's not only nostalgia, that's human technolgy. Yes, sensor keyboards are much cheeper, but the other things I mentioned are much more accomodated to human beings.

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

22-09-2005, 12:14

Tanni, you just moved me, emotionally. Thx Smile And of course you are right. And we probably all know what you mean. That's why we're here in this scene anyway, aren't we? We understand eachother. It's just that I for one believe that the OCM shouldn't be used for hardware preservation like data recorders. We can use our real MSX computers for that purpose.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

22-09-2005, 12:33

Tanni, you just moved me, emotionally. Thx And of course you are right. And we probably all know what you mean. That's why we're here in this scene anyway, aren't we? We understand eachother.
Yes!

It's just that I for one believe that the OCM shouldn't be used for hardware preservation like data recorders. We can use our real MSX computers for that purpose.
All my MSX1 are defective, so I can't use them for reading tapes! I think that the OCM is some kind of an intermediate product. If it doesn't succeed, commercial MSX revival will be most likely dead! (Maybe non commercial MSX revival will go on forever!) Hardware preservation can't be done with the OCM. But if there's a cas port, software preservation will be possible, even if there will be errors. There must be further processing (reconstruction) of the contents of tapes with read errors, of course. If there's software for doing that, the OCM could be used for the preservation of tape-based software, so there could be support for project EGG by everyone who will purchase the OCM. Preservation of classical MSX hardware and developing new MSX hardware (possibly MSX3) will be some steps further. We must go step by step!

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

22-09-2005, 12:40

My last posting was the hundredth reaction on that topic! Whow!

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

22-09-2005, 12:58

funny how Tanni stated the 1cm is the commercial revival and Latok stated it being the amateur revival.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

22-09-2005, 13:08

We won't agree, ever Tongue

Just wait for the 1cm, and you can see it doesn't have a cas-port.. that's all..

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

22-09-2005, 13:09

funny how Tanni stated the 1cm is the commercial revival and Latok stated it being the amateur revival.
To be more precise, the OCM is both, the commercial revival and, based on the commercialisation of the OCM, the amateur revival as well. You first need new ''official'' MSX hardware. Because these hardware is FPGA-based, you not only can develop software for the OCM, but hardware too. Thus, you don't need professional hardware developer for new products, if these ''amateur'' modifications only affect the VHDL sources.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

22-09-2005, 13:58

btw, I think I've played The Goonies from cassette, from (msx-)Disk, as a cartridge once ago at someone's place, and as .ROM in an emu. From my point the cas-loading sucked. The nostalgia-effect of the msx1 for me is the palette, the games, the 40-column-mode and the different colorschemes one could have while typing (and the border!). Absolutely no part of my nostalgia is the cas. 'The Goonies' wasn't different on all those media. The game was still the same game, the *only* difference was the loading-time.

screen1:color 1,15,9 was one of my favourites ^_^

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

22-09-2005, 14:10

To be more precise, the OCM is both, the commercial revival and, based on the commercialisation of the OCM, the amateur revival as well. You first need new ''official'' MSX hardware. Because these hardware is FPGA-based, you not only can develop software for the OCM, but hardware too. Thus, you don't need professional hardware developer for new products, if these ''amateur'' modifications only affect the VHDL sources.

Exactly! Now if everyone would understand this. Thank you, Tanni.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

22-09-2005, 15:12

spl - The famous EP tool for running disk images on MegaSCSI also works perfectly on the One Chip MSX.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5918)

NYYRIKKI's picture

22-09-2005, 15:37

I need cassette port so that I can do:

10 MOTOR:GOTO10

Tongue

By HansO

Paladin (672)

HansO's picture

22-09-2005, 15:53

10 MOTOR:GOTO10

Click:click:Click .... click:buzz:click buzz:...buzz: <silence...>

You vandal! Another relay gone to the MSX heaven....Smile

By pitpan

Prophet (3152)

pitpan's picture

22-09-2005, 16:16

Wolf: you didn't use the WAVeRed edition of Goonies. It just takes 25 seconds to load. It's still slower that floppies, IDEs and SCSIs, but it works fine. And remember that the MSX1 boot process is shorter than in the MSX2/2+/Turbo-R. No disk check=speed!

For me there is some nostalgia in tape loading, really. Specially when it uses one of those blinky bars loader, with the intro screen and another 10 minutes loading! It makes you paranoid: will it load this time? No checksum error? No I/O Error? These are real emotions! Tongue

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

22-09-2005, 16:46

poke &hfd9a,201
poke &hfd9b,255
poke &hfd9c,195
poke &hfd9d,243
poke &hfd9e,0
poke &hfd9a,62

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

22-09-2005, 16:47

I really don't see the point in waiting 10mins on something that can be loaded in a splitsecond, but alas..

Not to mention having more than 1 game on a tape and having to search the tape each time to find one specific game..

Anyway, again, no matter who's in or who's out ... I bet you the 1cm won't have a physical cas-port out of the box.. so there's the conclusion of the story

By Serico

Master (151)

Serico's picture

22-09-2005, 17:07

Ofcourse waiting 10 minutes for a game to load is nostalgic to some ppl, but is it fun and more important is it necessary?
No, it was annoying 20 years ago and it is therefor more annoying nowadays!
And it is totally unnecessary these days.
Playing the actual game is what it's about, not waiting for it to load!
Or do some of you just like the waiting and getting the I/O errors etc, and then start all over again.
And when it did load, you turn of your computer and say: wow, that was fun?!?

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6843)

ARTRAG's picture

22-09-2005, 17:18

Who cares about the tape!!
This is a dummy discussion, if the demand exists
(and it doesn't) someone will develop an HW addon.
All I need is and msx2 and a CF card as a floppy.
That's all

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

22-09-2005, 17:26

Sercio, wolf_, I don't understand your reactions! People are free even to wait 10 minutes for something that also could be done in a few seconds. If they like it, why not. If you don't want to wait, use disc, USB or whatever. Even if the OCM would have a cas port, and I hope so, you are not forced to use it. But others may want to use it! And, as I pointed out earlier, there are also some advantages in having a cas port on the OCM! You just repeat your arguments, never really considering the other arguments possible. That's boring!

By Serico

Master (151)

Serico's picture

22-09-2005, 17:33

Repeating good arguments isn't boring; waiting 10 minutes for loading is!

By spl

Paragon (1470)

spl's picture

22-09-2005, 18:11


spl, I believe the OCM has MEGA-SCSI built in, which means you can run diskimages without any problem. Also, its adapted MSXDOS with FAT16 support is really really cool

Yes, it has MEGA-SCSI Big smile I use as you know my MSX mainly for composing music, so if I don't have any problem to load PRO TRACKER sure I will buy it. And yes, FAT 16 by default is perfect Smile

By pitpan

Prophet (3152)

pitpan's picture

22-09-2005, 18:17

With all these add-ons, what will be the final "free RAM" of the OCM? I mean, when you boot the thing normally and get into BASIC, what would display the PRINT FRE(0) statement?

I say this because there's a lot of software that needs at least 25 KB of free RAM in BASIC, mainly MSX1 games originally published in cassette.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

22-09-2005, 19:06

If 5000 1cm's WITH a built-in cas-port will be produced, then 5000 ppl will pay for a built-in cas-port that 4990 ppl aren't going to use. That's the main arguement. Look, I've no problem with optional cas2usb things or whatever solution you want, I just don't think that the **majority** of ppl are going to use a cas-port. So every dollar spent on it to be built-in would be a waste.

Yet better, I doubt ppl are complaining with the right intentions anyway. Was there any request for a cas-port ages ago when ESE was already working on it..? or is this cas-port-issue simply "the-last-opportunity-to-nag-the-evil-'Bazix=MRC=MSXCG=Snout'-about"?

You know what, go here and go nag ESE about a cas-port, because no one did so yet in that topic! Must be coincidence... :P

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

22-09-2005, 21:43

On the May 2005 prototype, a ?fre(0) gives 25298 bytes free.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6843)

ARTRAG's picture

22-09-2005, 23:06

This forum is (too much) democratic, let’s do a poll about the need of a cassette in the OCM.

The question could be something like:

Do you want the the cassette support in the OCM?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

22-09-2005, 23:09

Could be done indeed, but seriously: would it change anything? Tongue

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6843)

ARTRAG's picture

22-09-2005, 23:25

I do not need a cassette (like the 99.999% of the people, I guess), let's see how the poll goes

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

22-09-2005, 23:29

that's what I mean: do a poll.. it's nice purely for the statistics, but it isn't gonna change a bit to the course of the eventual 1cm..

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

poke-1,170's picture

23-09-2005, 03:18

'Bazix=MRC=MSXCG=Snout'

WHAT??????????????????????????????????????????
SmileBig smileTongueCoolLOL!WinkQuestionoOEek!Shocked!SadCrazyCryingEvil

By poke-1,170

Paragon (1768)

poke-1,170's picture

23-09-2005, 03:21

perhaps,instead of soiling this original topic, we should create a "whine all you want about cassetteports" topic
sorry for the bad joke at the start...please kick me out of MRC

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

23-09-2005, 08:13

spl, I can already say loading protracker files (with protracker) from a FAT16 partition can't be done without adding real DOS2 support to the load/save system of protracker. It's possible to adapt the replayer for that as the source is available.

By spl

Paragon (1470)

spl's picture

23-09-2005, 18:30

Yes, but It will be possible to load PROTRACKER from DSK image, for example? A new MSX hope will be... MSX Compatible. Protracker disk is selfboot as you know.

Yours,

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

23-09-2005, 19:16

Perhaps the coder of protracker can do a new free revival-release, with plain dos-files.. how about asking? Tongue

By tfh

Prophet (3177)

tfh's picture

23-09-2005, 21:27

The coder of ProTracker (Michiel Spoor) doesn't have his MSX anymore and is not interested in something like that.
But I know there is a file version of ProTracker as well. It was cracked by someone a long time ago. If I remember correctly, it was Marie van den Broek of The Games BBS. But that was somewhere early 90's.
Maybe someone has version lying around?

But... On the other hand: This way you are making a workarround, while the OCM should be able to boot such disks in some way, or it's simply not a decent MSX system....

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

23-09-2005, 22:25

ok, weird.. and this is exactly what I was talking about on the last MSXCG-meeting with some ppz..

I can imagine:
(1) ppl having silent years
(2) ppl being bored because eventually the msx runs out of ideas
(3) ppl put the msx in a box and put the box away in some basement

But I can't imagine ppl who released stuff, who had some kinda 'name', who were even there in the early demoscene-years, co-working on Genic's picturedisk, I can't imagine those ppl *selling* their MSX as if it never excisted. I've seen more ppl sell their stuff here, complete sets with Moonsound, G9k, lotsa RAM etc. etc. the whole bunch, ppl who were once also an active part of the whole show.

How many ppl/groups where active around 1995? How many ppl had a booth on a Zandvoort- or Tilburg-fair? How many of them are left to sneak back to today's scene.. even if it's just to watch?

I've had my silent years as well (PCmusic + study), but I wouldn't even think of selling the whole bunch tho.. whatyagonna get then, a few hundred bucks? Is that so important then? More important than 10 years of history?

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

23-09-2005, 23:43

spl: you can boot protracker using EP, and you can use up to 8 'user disks' with it to store/load your music on. Should be sufficient, don't you think?

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

24-09-2005, 08:25

I guess the 1cm still supports FAT12, which is protracker's 'maiden' file system anyway.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

24-09-2005, 09:08

When you run software on an MSX emulator in Windows XP, does that MSX software have to support NTFS as well? No it does not? Why? Exactly Tongue Same goes for running disk images on the One Chip MSX using EP. I'l check wheter FAT12 partitions can be used on SD cards natively as well, but I see no reason why that would not be the case. At least the fat12 partitions on compacflash worked like a charm Tongue

By spl

Paragon (1470)

spl's picture

24-09-2005, 13:28

Snout and Bifi, yes if I can run ProTracker, it will be well Wink

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

24-09-2005, 16:29

And with that post, spl, this newspost has the record of the biggest amount of reactions Tongue

No.#2 also has its share of cassette-issues btw ^_^

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6843)

ARTRAG's picture

24-09-2005, 21:00

Does anyone know about the possibility of having a true floppy drive?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

24-09-2005, 21:05

DS or HD ?

( *thinks DS are obsolete )

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

24-09-2005, 22:27

When using disk interface cartridge: enjoy
When using USB: needs some VHDL code, afaik often specific to the type of external FDD used. HD support should not be a problem
When using (Sunrise) IDE interface: Connect an LS-120 drive and enjoy! Speed, HD, etc.! Smile

By Manuel

Ascended (18783)

Manuel's picture

25-09-2005, 00:15

<Quibus> Wolf_: DS or HD?
<Quibus> Tell me what those abbrevs mean
<Wolf_> doublesided or highdensity
<Wolf_> (disks)
<Quibus> yes
<Quibus> But HD disks are also double sided
<Quibus> It's not the amount of sides, it's the density
<Quibus> 720kB == DS DD
<Quibus> 1440kB == DS HD
<AuroraMSX> btw, I've never seen SS HD ^_^
<Quibus> 360kB == SS DD or DS SD
<Quibus> and that all exists.
<Wolf_> well, I guess prolly everyone got the idea ... (except you perhaps ^_^)
<Quibus> Andindeed, SS HD doesn't
<Quibus> Wolf_: I got the idea, but I wanted you to know how things are Smile
* Wolf_ very low interests @ stone-age hardware ^_^
<Quibus> right
<AuroraMSX> So, what's the choice: 720k vs 1.44MB (DD vs HD) or 360k vs 720k (SS DD vs DS DD) ?
<Quibus> choice? where?
<Quibus> oh in his OP
<Quibus> http://www.msx.org/Bazix-reveals-more-info-on-One-Chip-MSX.newspost3290.html
<Quibus> I think floppies are obsolete
<Quibus> But for MSX they're very useful :)
<Wolf_> ofcourse I was referring to 720k vs 1.44mb
<AuroraMSX> ah, ok
<Wolf_> single-sided should die eveh harder :D

ah well, just amusing you folks :P

(oh my! I posted a piece of IRC log!!)

By AuroraMSX

Paragon (1902)

AuroraMSX's picture

25-09-2005, 00:16

Wolf said:
obsolete
Yup. That's the word...

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

25-09-2005, 00:17

The last time someone made IRC-log public we were facing a 100++ reply-rave..

You really want this newspost to hit 200, do you? Tongue

By HansO

Paladin (672)

HansO's picture

25-09-2005, 14:49

About the MSX hardware specification: I know of two documents describing thw standard, both ASCII/Microsoft publications:
- MSX Technical Data book
- MSX 2 Technical Databook (1986).
I have never seen a MSX 2+ not turboR standard published.
In the MSX 2 standard both cassette interface and printer interface are required. And two jostickports. And one cartdige slot. Minimal VRAM is 64K and minimal main RAM is 64K. Note that a memory mapper for the main RAM is optional. A floppy diks interface is optional.

Ofcourse the owner of the MSX standard is free to redefine the standard any time. It is stated this way in the Technical Databook:
The information in this document is subject to change without notice ....
All the talk of the One Chip MSX not being standard is therefore moot, since the owner of the standard can say it is a MSX!

By msd

Paragon (1472)

msd's picture

25-09-2005, 19:11

Hanso: Very good Smile

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

26-09-2005, 11:26

Ofcourse the owner of the MSX standard is free to redefine the standard any time. It is stated this way in the Technical Databook:
Quote:
The information in this document is subject to change without notice ...
.
All the talk of the One Chip MSX not being standard is therefore moot, since the owner of the standard can say it is a MSX!

To my mind, if there's a standard, you can't change it arbitrarily. I remember that there's a statement like: ''... only the BIOS entries are guaranteed to stay permanent.'' So at least the BIOS entries can't be changed. Yes, the owner of the standard can redefine something, but this should be done with a new release of the document defining the standard. If ''standard'' means ''comptibility'' than even the owner of the standard has only minimal freedom for changes.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6843)

ARTRAG's picture

26-09-2005, 12:24

I propose to slightly ennance the VDP introducing new modes
I would like to have those minor upgrades

1) 16 I/O for address and data (end of the blody addressing at 14bits)
2) VDP CMD's in any screen mode (CMD's are usefull also in scr4 !!)
3) enabling the EC as a single bit in the Sprite attribute table also in sprite mode 2 (patch of the crappy sprite management of x coordinate)

By Latok

msx guru (3867)

Latok's picture

26-09-2005, 16:19

That's the cool thing about it all. We can indeed enhance hardware specs.......Man, I reaaaaaaaaally hope it'll go on SmileSmileSmile

By msd

Paragon (1472)

msd's picture

26-09-2005, 17:47

ARTAG: The v9958 can do commands in every mode

By msd

Paragon (1472)

msd's picture

26-09-2005, 18:28

Tanni: Yes but stil msx-a has the right to ditch the cas port (as they already did with the turbo r) if you like it or not

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

26-09-2005, 23:15

and the WSX (post no 150 Tongue)

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

27-09-2005, 11:56

After ten years of abandonment by the ones who legally hold the rights on MSX, I think, the MSX community deserves a right to a say in the matter of developing the standard.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9956)

wolf_'s picture

27-09-2005, 12:00

tssk.

But in that case, the scene-influence will be based on scene-democracy! Most votes count .. if that means that most ppl don't want a cas-port, then there'll be no cas-port Tongue

(when do ppl start to realise that msxA *won't* add any cas-port, ever Big smile .. ask them! )

By sjoerd

Hero (602)

sjoerd's picture

27-09-2005, 12:56

I think they should add a diskdrive. oO

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

27-09-2005, 13:55

Sjoerd, that would be very simple just a question of that MSXA/CESA deliver the driver for it.
Wolf and Tanni, the MSX all in one is a matter as heard of programming yourself or by others.
The controller part of a casport and also moonsound has to be written in VHDL code.
But for both you need also a piece of real hardware on board.
E.g, connectors and I donot know of hardware further. And as far as I can conclude that the adaption of +12v and -12v will even not occur. Oke there is a solution via a slotexpander, but then you get not that small computer you want

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

27-09-2005, 14:17

Dunno, from what I heard they were looking into the 12V+ problem, and I couldn't care less about -12V. In the end it's all a matter of cost. The more 'complete' the machine is, the more expensive it will be. I'd rather save myself $10 than having two features I will never ever use. Like wolf already said, it's hardly fair to have 4987 people pick up the bill for a feature 13 people will use.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

27-09-2005, 14:22

Sjoerd, that would be very simple just a question of that MSXA/CESA deliver the driver for it.
I would like to have a disk drive, too!

Wolf and Tanni, the MSX all in one is a matter as heard of programming yourself or by others. The controller part of a casport and also moonsound has to be written in VHDL code.
Yes, but coding isn't the matter.

But for both you need also a piece of real hardware on board. E.g, connectors and I donot know of hardware further.
That's exactly the matter! Wolf says, that, because of almost nobody will use the casport anymore, it can be omited to save a little money. I'm the opinion, that the additional costs for such a port -- and even the moonsound power supply -- are minimal and therefore should be accepted due to increased usability of the OCM, even if maybe only a view will use it. The moonsound maybe will have lots of more users!

And as far as I can conclude that the adaption of +12v and -12v will even not occur. Oke there is a solution via a slotexpander, but then you get not that small computer you want
If we are given the OCM to do VHDL programming by our own, then why don't we have some influence in what does the OCM board contain? Having casport and moonsound power supply already on board will save lots of additional costs and work and posting fees if somebody wants his OCM updated with that features.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

27-09-2005, 14:55

Tanni - the decision to make the One Chip MSX FPGA based and the decisions to make the One Chip MSX MSX2 compatible with 2 cartridge slots and an extra config-ROM were all taken following the feedback of the MSX community. You make it seem like the MSX community had no influence on it at all, whatsoever, which simply is not the case.

I personally am very happy that the choice was made to implement a new, large, fast, durable storage medium. It makes the One Chip MSX a device that is ready for the future and that is exactly what we need. If you want to use floppy disks you can still use your old MSX computer or use a disk interface (cartridge). You can even connect a LS-120 drive to an IDE interface. I'm afraid there is no real standard for USB diskdrives, but connecting an USB diskdrive should also be possible, provided you write the necessary VHDL code to make it work yourself. A PC with a cardreader and floppy diskdrive is all you need to transfer all your old data to SD card(s). You can even run sector-based disk images using EP.

Same goes for cassettes. There are two audio connectors on the One Chip MSX. All you have to do is use one as an audio input and write the VHDL to make loading from and saving to cassette possible. You could make a program to run .CAS/.WAV files on the OCM. I think even a 'casport-cartridge' could be possible.

Given these possibilities, and given the low amount of people who would like to see these periherals (and the even lower amount of people who would actually use them Tongue) I don't see why the costs of the One Chip MSX should increase for everybody just to make this non-silent-minority happy. At least I think you would agree with me that the improvements that have been announced recently (see the newsposts some 150 reactions above ^_^) are far more essential.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

27-09-2005, 16:48

Tanni - the decision to make the One Chip MSX FPGA based and the decisions to make the One Chip MSX MSX2 compatible with 2 cartridge slots and an extra config-ROM were all taken following the feedback of the MSX community.
Yes, of course!

You make it seem like the MSX community had no influence on it at all, whatsoever, which simply is not the case.
I never really believed that the MSX community has no influence, but from a point of view from which is not BAZIX's view, one could get the impression that it is like that. It seems to me that, the influence the community has is rather indirect!

... and given the low amount of people who would like to see these periherals (and the even lower amount of people who would actually use them ) I don't see why the costs of the One Chip MSX should increase for everybody just to make this non-silent-minority happy. At least I think you would agree with me that the improvements that have been announced recently (see the newsposts some 150 reactions above ^_^) are far more essential.
On MSX, I only used very few cassettes. If you have read my postings thoroughly, you will have noticed that I understand Wolf's point of view. I only wanted to point out that there are also good arguments for having cas port. You must always look at both sides. This lacks in this discussion. But yes, I agree with you that the improvements recently announced here are far more essential!

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

27-09-2005, 17:10

Thanks for clearing things up even a bit more, Tanni. Indeed, the influence of the MSX community on the MSX revival is indirect most of the time, but it is certainly there, which is the most important thing. Never before, that was the case. Even when looking at the pro's of having a cas-port, or floppy drive (and I agree there are positive sides to it), I think the extra costs that have to be made do not comply with the actual benefit one would get from having those connectors/devices. In other words: I think ESE and MSXA made the right decision by moving on to a next generation, low cost storage medium, to which the contents of all classic media can be transfered relatively easily. As sketched above, the purists who really would like to use CAS or FDD have plenty of options of implementing these on their own. (Thinking of it, like an EP FDD emulator, a CAS emulator might even be made...)

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

27-09-2005, 20:56

A LS-120 isnot that easy to get anymore snout, unfortunately.
Sonic I admire youre contribute but it is very unwise to think that it is only a question of a Moonsound. How many people do have a rs232c interface, how many people have msx-audio, how many would like if a FMpac isnot included /or want to remove the code in order to make something new. Since that is what you are talking about !
I assure you that you are more than 13 peopleWink

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

27-09-2005, 22:30

Sonic I admire youre contribute but it is very unwise to think that it is only a question of a Moonsound. How many people do have a rs232c interface, how many people have msx-audio, how many would like if a FMpac isnot included /or want to remove the code in order to make something new. Since that is what you are talking about !
I assure you that you are more than 13 people
Why, do any of those things require -12V or a cassette port? I thought they didn't, but I could of course be wrong...

By sunrise

Paragon (1091)

sunrise's picture

27-09-2005, 23:05

Why do you think I mention it.
But to be fair I mention also [products that will work.
GFX9000, cf-interface ,normal ide ,game cartridges.
And as said if you connect an expander it will solve also the problem.But that extra costs it isnot worth unless you have one.
I estimate that costs on 22 euro , the as that been asked for in the previous pre-ordering for the update to msx2.
So I would have paid for that instead of an update.
But the situation was different then.

By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

28-09-2005, 13:16

There are MSX-Audio carts that require -12V?!? I did not know about that, I didn't know the MoonSound required -12V either, I thought it only required +12V, like most other MSX hardware.