MRC MEGA Challenge shifts to 25th anniversary

by snout on 23-06-2007, 22:01
Topic: MRC
Tags: Challenges
Languages:

On December 19th, 2006 we started the MSX Resource Center MEGA Challenge, challenging MSX developers around the world to compete for a brand new One Chip MSX computer in three different and potentially overlapping categories:

  1. MSX2 game development challenge

Objective: Create a game for the MSX2 platform. It's as simple as that. All genres are allowed, and only your imagination is the limit. With various MRC challenges as a warmup, the time has come to let a nice batch of new MSX2 games see the light of day. All you have to do is obey the following maximum specifications:

  • 64kB RAM
  • 128kB VRAM
  • Max 512kB ROM or one (1) 720kB disk

For audio support, PSG, SCC(+), MSX-MUSIC, MSX-AUDIO (max 256kB) and Moonsound (max 640kB) sound chips and combinations thereof are all allowed. None of these sound chips are mandatory, so a game only supporting PSG or a game only supporting Moonsound are both valid entries. The game should function on these minimal specifications, but enhanced features for e.g. the MSX2+, GFX9000 and/or turboR are allowed.

  • History theme challenge

    Objective: Create a game or demo in a historical setting. Take, for example, the Ancient Egypts, Dinosaurs, the Roman Empire, Greek Mythology, Caverns or Chinese Dynasties. In other words: get inspired by major events and eras in world (pre-)history and surprise the MSX community with your creativity! Will you make the next King's Valley or B.C. Quest?

    This discipline has no minimum specifications, but - like previous challenges - has the following maximum specifications:

    • MSX turboR
    • 512kB RAM
    • GFX9000
    • Any combination of general MSX soundchips (see those mentioned above) allowed
    • No storage size and medium limitations
  • 64x48 challenge

    Objective: Create a game or demo that uses the center 64x48 pixels of the screen. Optionally, you can chose to use SCREEN 3 in full-screen. This smaller screen size allows developers to experiment with graphical effects that are usually impossible on an MSX (full screen). Think of the possibilities when using less than a quarter of the regular MSX screen! Think of the amount of VRAM and sprites available! What kinds of smooth and stunning graphical action can you achieve on this reduced size screen?

    Like the History discipline, this discipline has no minimum specifications, but - like previous challenges - has the following maximum specifications:

    • MSX turboR
    • 512kB RAM
    • GFX9000
    • Any combination of general MSX soundchips (see those mentioned above) allowed
    • No storage size and medium limitations
  • Today, we come with good news and (relatively) bad news. To start with the latter: we have extended the deadline of the MSX Resource Center MEGA Challenge. Although one great entry (Ball Quest) has already been submitted and several developers have let us know they are working on finishing their entries as well a tough and difficult start of the year prevented us from giving the challenge the attention it deserved.

    We have therefore decided to increase the stakes and move the deadline of the MRC MEGA Challenge with one full year to June 27th, 2008. On this day the MSX computer system will celebrate its 25th anniversary, so what better way to celebrate our beloved computer being around for a quarter of a century than with a nice pile of new MSX releases?

    The good news is that we can now reveal which other prizes we are going to give away to the best entries. We had already announced the first prize would be a new One Chip MSX computer. Now, we can reveal there are two more prizes to be won: a One Chip MSX and... another One Chip MSX. Yes, you have read it correctly the first time: in the MSX Resource Center MEGA Challenge we are going to give away not one, not two, but three One Chip MSX computers! So, in this new situation not only do you have 3 times as much chance to win a One Chip MSX by joining the challenge, you also have a full extra year to develop and polish an entry that is likely to win a prize!

    You can send in your entries to mega@msx.org until June 27th, 2008, 23:59 CET. Developers that send in their entry to the MRC MEGA Challenge before the initial deadline of June 27th, 2007 will receive a full bonus point in the final results. A jury that is to judge the entries is at the moment still to be formed and will be announced on the MSX Resource Center in the future.

    So, developers, are you ready to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the MSX computer system in style? Start your engines and join MSX Resource Center's MEGA Challenge!

    Comments (92)

    By Edwin

    Paragon (1182)

    Edwin's picture

    23-06-2007, 22:06

    Hey! We were on schedule for Wednesday dammit! Tongue

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    23-06-2007, 22:09

    Yea $%&^#$ the first f*cking deadline we were going to make, and then they move the whole shebang, aaargh! Tongue

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    23-06-2007, 22:11

    /me points Edwin and Wolf_ to the bonus point Wink

    By ARTRAG

    Enlighted (6229)

    ARTRAG's picture

    23-06-2007, 22:23

    1 year more??
    noooo......
    CryingCryingCryingCryingCryingCrying

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    23-06-2007, 22:40

    ARTRAG: I'm not stopping you from releasing your entry/entries earlier ^_^

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    23-06-2007, 22:51

    Well, it's logical tho, with one BQgame, one entry from us, and I know of 2 other entries, the list o' entries would be on the skinny side, esp. for a challenge with 3 sub-challenges where one can win an OCM. A certain forumthread springs to mind..

    By dvik

    Prophet (2200)

    dvik's picture

    23-06-2007, 23:04

    Maybe the interest for MSX2 isn't what it used to be. Hopefully the new deadline will result in some more entries. For me its good with the extended deadline. I didn't have time to do anything before the old deadline. Good that the submitted entries get some bonus for being in time though.

    By Ivan

    Ascended (9099)

    Ivan's picture

    23-06-2007, 23:18

    Yeah dvik, if you develop a new good game or demo wolf's OCM will be yours! Tongue Tongue Tongue

    By SLotman

    Paragon (1211)

    SLotman's picture

    24-06-2007, 01:11

    Well, I have a game I've been developing for turbo-R (actually 2, but the second is not even in alpha stages yet) but it has no "history" theme... so both of them wouldnt qualify for the contest.

    I also have an MSX2 game, but it uses mapper, and it's not even close to being finished... so also wouldnt qualify Sad

    And I have nothing for screen3, so bleh Tongue

    Seriously though, I had very little spare time the last couple of months, so most of my projects are progressing slowly... and that's why I didnt join the contest.

    By Ivan

    Ascended (9099)

    Ivan's picture

    24-06-2007, 12:31

    I think that the decision of moving the deadline to the next year is appropriate, an extension of 6 months would have meant that the MEGA Challange and MSXdev would have coincided.

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    25-06-2007, 10:15

    I desagree with the new extended deadline.

    The organization has not respected the date of ending. What will be the next?

    Why has not been commented this before?, Why has been said in the last week?, it is incorrect.

    This can not be benefit to the developers who have realized an program in the time fixed by the organization, and give advantage to others.

    If there is not so much programs at the end the new deadline, will be modify the date?

    The "point extra" can be insufficient, because the system of punctuation is not known.
    So, the programmer that sees an already finished program has so much advantage.

    The new date is excessive, and to extend the date don't suppose more programs.

    It could have extended for after the summer, and it would continue without coinciding with other contest.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 10:51

    The organization has not respected the date of ending. What will be the next?
    nothing

    Why has not been commented this before?, Why has been said in the last week?, it is incorrect.
    If you've seen earlier challenges then you would've known that in the last week(s) more and more entries are submitted. So far: 1. There has to be a point where you say 'ok, there won't be tens of entries if we stick to this deadline', and that's what we've done. I think it's fair to expect a considerable amount of entries for a challenge made out of 3 different categories, where one can win a brand-new computer.
    Additionally, the first half year of MRC'07 was a bit quiet as the main motor behind MRC was having considerable private-life issues. While no-one knows whether this had a negative impact on this challenge, no-one knows whether it would turn out better without those issues either. Who knows.. in addition, the forumthread I posted above could be interesting to keep in mind.

    This can not be benefit to the developers who have realized an program in the time fixed by the organization, and give advantage to others.
    Well, there's the +1 point, that's a benefit. In fact, I've enjoyed some -1 points in the past, which usually had drastic effects. So, to say that '1' isn't a significant amount would not be correct.

    If there is not so much programs at the end the new deadline, will be modify the date?
    Nah, I don't think so. This deadline and the one next year are all set to match the anniversary date of the MSX. If you want a challenge to end on this date, you get one chance a year.

    The "point extra" can be insufficient, because the system of punctuation is not known.
    So, the programmer that sees an already finished program has so much advantage.

    Read my statement above about the -1. I expect this challenge judging system to be like previous challenges, MRC crew gives points, dedicated jury gives more weighted points, and then the bonus or penalty points are added. -1 or +1 *can* make a huge difference depending on how the jury is going to give numbers. If the entries receive scores ranging from 7 to 8, then one +point or -point is quite considerable.

    The new date is excessive, and to extend the date don't suppose more programs.
    It's excessive in order to match the next anniversary date. We didn't extend it with 6 months, in order not to disrupt MSXdev'07. Whether the new deadline will give us many more entries is something no-one knows. But after a period of relative silence (including the regular under-the-belt mud throwing and FUD, which doesn't make web/admin-moods better here), MRC seems to get on track again, it might affect the challenge in a positive way!

    Look at it from a more positive point of view:
    * there's another year to create something!
    * when not submitting a finished entry now, there's a whole year for polish/fine-tuning!
    * perhaps people have made an engine for some type of game, now they can create an additional entry based on that engine!
    * now you can win 3 OneChipMSX'es! (or rather, there are 3 to give away .. slightly different interpretation Tongue)
    * LOL!
    * Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

    By Imanok

    Paragon (1142)

    Imanok's picture

    25-06-2007, 11:37

    I also think extending the deadline that way hasn't been a good idea. It's been extended too long and it has been announced too late (4 days before the deadline).

    It's not fair for people who have finished their entry in time (only 'Ball Quest', in this case). Maybe they wanted to add or improve some things and they didn't because they were afraid not to make them before the deadline. And those possible improvements could have been greater than just '1' bonus point.

    It's neither fair for people who have been working under the preassure of the deadline and now they find they have been working overtime for nothing. Wolf, I know you are in that situation (although you case is slightly different, because you are part of MRC crew and probably you've been involved in taking that decision too).

    If MRC intention was to give some more time to developers currently making whatever for the contest, I think a month or so would have been enough.

    On the other hand, if the real reason for extending the deadline was just to match the 25 anniversary date... maybe it would have been better to finish the contest on the original deadline and inmediatelly starting a new edition with that new deadline (take a look at MSXDev first edition).

    Just my 2 cents...

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 11:59

    It's not fair for people who have finished their entry in time (only 'Ball Quest', in this case). Maybe they wanted to add or improve some things and they didn't because they were afraid not to make them before the deadline. And those possible improvements could have been greater than just '1' bonus point.
    There's always something unfair in life, nothing is perfect. Imagine a balance with on one side: "one -good- entry, maybe 3 or 4 eventually", and on the other side of the balance: "the biggest MRC challenge ever with the most expensive prize". Not an easy one, huh..?

    It's neither fair for people who have been working under the preassure of the deadline and now they find they have been working overtime for nothing. Wolf, I know you are in that situation (although you case is slightly different, because you are part of MRC crew and probably you've been involved in taking that decision too).
    The possible extension of the deadline was discussed internally some days earlier than the announcement, maybe even a week earlier. I myself suggested to announce such an extension as early as possible, for exactly the reasons you gave in the first line, the pressure, the overtime, the stress. I know the drill, and boy are we drilling for wednesday. Tongue But well, MRC remains a hobby website, where there's not always time for drastic issues like these, bear with us. While there are other webmasters online, you might understand that ppl like Ivan, me, and another another buncha webmasters aren't just going to write a newspost in which we "give away" 3 OneChipMSX'es which aren't ours.. Tongue These things really need to come from, and decided by, snout.

    If MRC intention was to give some more time to developers currently making whatever for the contest, I think a month or so would have been enough.
    The problem here is finishing vs starting. How many projects are under construction atm? We don't know, we'd actually like to know. One month to finish a product is plenty, but if this month is only used to finish products then we again end-up with 3..4 entries. Question is, is one month enough to start a new project and have it finished in time? I actually don't think so, unless it's something really small, but considering the specs, people might prefer high-end material.

    On the other hand, if the real reason for extending the deadline was just to match the 25 anniversary date... maybe it would have been better to finish the contest on the original deadline and inmediatelly starting a new edition with that new deadline (take a look at MSXDev first edition).

    Finish the original contest with 3..4 entries? Nah, we didn't really feel like that. While not everyone may feel this deadline shift is ideal, considering the situation and the amount of entries, having a deadline shift may be the best solution. Discussion about this subject is open tho, so do continue.. Tongue

    By pitpan

    Prophet (3131)

    pitpan's picture

    25-06-2007, 12:04

    My only point is that it is not fair to call it "25th anniversary" and not allow the original machines to enter the contest or force them to confront such configurations as Turbo-R, GFX9000, 512 KB, Moonsound, etc. Call it 23rd anniversay instead, as it is focused on MSX2 and higher machines Sad

    About the deadlines, I think it would be fair to let the makers of the only finished entry decide about extending the deadline. If they agree, then let be it. If not, you are clearly damaging their interest just to benefit someone else. I'm sorry if this post sounds a bit harsh, but I know what close-to-deadline work means. Sad

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 12:16

    My only point is that it is not fair to call it "25th anniversary" and not allow the original machines to enter the contest or force them to confront such configurations as Turbo-R, GFX9000, 512 KB, Moonsound, etc. Call it 23rd anniversay instead, as it is focused on MSX2 and higher machines

    Hold it, the MSX2game challenge has minimum specs, but the other two are just generic challenges for all MSX models. An MSX1 game like MoG would make a perfect history entry, as it's about medieval times. So the '25' is really valid here. The fairness about having MSX1 entries and tR/G9k/Moonsound entries in one competition might be a point, but it's quite subjective. Some people argue that the best games they've played are Konami's MSX1 games. At the same time, people might not choose to use the tR and G9k. And even when they do, if the MSX1 entry has better gameplay, and has -considering the sc2 limits- "better" graphics than a lousy-design G9k game, then I wouldn't cancel out the MSX1 entry to win over Goliath. Ofcoz, it's true that a superb-design G9k game with fantastic gameplay and more yadayadayada is actually a Goliath you don't want to meet, being David. MRC's theme challenges have always been open to all systems, this one really is the continuation of what we had when we stopped after the Bounce challenge.

    About the deadlines, I think it would be fair to let the makers of the only finished entry decide about extending the deadline. If they agree, then let be it. If not, you are clearly damaging their interest just to benefit someone else. I'm sorry if this post sounds a bit harsh, but I know what close-to-deadline work means.
    Hm, I don't think this idea is that bad, might discuss it internally, no guarantees tho. Tho, it's up to wednesday to see how many finished entries there are, probably more than one.

    By MicroTech

    Champion (384)

    MicroTech's picture

    25-06-2007, 12:49

    I agree with Imanok: IMHO shifting of 1 year is exhaggerated.
    1 year of work can be much more heavy than "only" 1 point...

    If a new challenge will be issued in the future, which reliability could be given to the "supposed" expiration date?

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    25-06-2007, 13:00

    If you've seen earlier challenges then you would've known that in the last week(s) more and more entries are submitted. So far: 1. There has to be a point where you say 'ok, there won't be tens of entries if we stick to this deadline', and that's what we've done. I think it's fair to expect a considerable amount of entries for a challenge made out of 3 different categories, where one can win a brand-new computer.

    Additionally, the first half year of MRC'07 was a bit quiet as the main motor behind MRC was having considerable private-life issues. While no-one knows whether this had a negative impact on this challenge, no-one knows whether it would turn out better without those issues either. Who knows.. in addition, the forumthread I posted above could be interesting to keep in mind.

    The organization had to tell this from start, not now.
    The new prizes do not justify the new date.

    Well, there's the +1 point, that's a benefit. In fact, I've enjoyed some -1 points in the past, which usually had drastic effects. So, to say that '1' isn't a significant amount would not be correct.

    No, because the other participants has a year to compensate that bonus point, so, that "point extra" can be insufficient.

    It's excessive in order to match the next anniversary date. We didn't extend it with 6 months, in order not to disrupt MSXdev'07. Whether the new deadline will give us many more entries is something no-one knows. But after a period of relative silence (including the regular under-the-belt mud throwing and FUD, which doesn't make web/admin-moods better here), MRC seems to get on track again, it might affect the challenge in a positive way!

    You can extend it with 3 months, after the summer and it would continue without coinciding with other contest.

    Look at it from a more positive point of view:
    * there's another year to create something!
    * when not submitting a finished entry now, there's a whole year for polish/fine-tuning!

    A year is so much.

    * perhaps people have made an engine for some type of game, now they can create an additional entry based on that engine!

    This is a great error.

    The organization can benefit to somebody. This can not be benefit to the developers who have realized an program in the time fixed by the organization, and give advantage to others.

    * now you can win 3 OneChipMSX'es!

    This does not justify the new date.

    @imanok

    I also think extending the deadline that way hasn't been a good idea. It's been extended too long and it has been announced too late (4 days before the deadline).

    True

    It's neither fair for people who have been working under the preassure of the deadline and now they find they have been working overtime for nothing.

    That is. The change is incorrect.

    @pitpan

    About the deadlines, I think it would be fair to let the makers of the only finished entry decide about extending the deadline. If they agree, then let be it. If not, you are clearly damaging their interest just to benefit someone else. I'm sorry if this post sounds a bit harsh, but I know what close-to-deadline work means.

    No, because it is possible that another people have their programs ready.

    The organization is damaging the interest of all the participants who can send the program in the set date.

    By poke-1,170

    Paragon (1756)

    poke-1,170's picture

    25-06-2007, 13:02

    ehm, correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, both the history and the 64x48 challenge allow msx 1.
    Maybe people read it too quickly and think it's for gfx9000 and turbo R, but if you read carefully it states that that is the maximum that one can use.
    So there is only 1 out of 3 challenges which is msx2 only, the rest is free to use.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 13:09

    We'll discuss it internally, hold your breath. (but not too long Tongue)

    But summarizing all together, the main issue is that one full year is overkill?

    Do you ppl at least agree that -as things look now- 3..4 entries doesn't make a great challenge, considering the reward? Because that's what I miss in your counter-arguements. One thing we can hopefully all agree on is that a strict deadline this wednesday is not very good news.

    Additionally, what about my finishing vs starting arguement? What if this deadline is moved 1 month instead of 1 year, would it help a lot, or would we end up with 3..4 entries again? Please ppl, if you reply, at least do so for all discussion points..

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    25-06-2007, 13:36

    But summarizing all together, the main issue is that one full year is overkill?

    Yes. The organization must respect the set date.

    Do you ppl at least agree that -as things look now- 3..4 entries doesn't make a great challenge, considering the reward? Because that's what I miss in your counter-arguements. One thing we can hopefully all agree on is that a strict deadline this wednesday is not very good news.

    Ok.
    I insist, you can extend it with 3 months, after the summer, not a year!!!

    Additionally, what about my finishing vs starting arguement? What if this deadline is moved 1 month instead of 1 year, would it help a lot, or would we end up with 3..4 entries again? Please ppl, if you reply, at least do so for all discussion points..

    This does not solve anything, because if you give more time, they can leave it for later.

    By poke-1,170

    Paragon (1756)

    poke-1,170's picture

    25-06-2007, 13:54

    DEADLINES ? DEADLINES ? START PROGRAMMING YOU FOOLS ! BA-team

    By Imanok

    Paragon (1142)

    Imanok's picture

    25-06-2007, 13:59

    IMHO, an extended deadline should be oriented to help the developers finishing their projects, not to gain hypothetical new contestants. If you want new contestants, make a new contest when the current one ends.

    Of course, 3 or 4 entries doesn't make a great challenge... but it's the way it is... extending the deadline doesn't guarantee more contestants anyway. Don't missunderstand me... I want as much games as possible, but you should comply with your own rules, not to loose credibility.

    Maybe it's our mistake to assume this contest will become a yearly contest (as MSXDev is), so we think about possible next editions.

    By ARTRAG

    Enlighted (6229)

    ARTRAG's picture

    25-06-2007, 14:11

    Now a question rises naturally:

    Is it possible to submit to the [MRC] competition the same (or almost
    the same) entry submitted to another competition ?
    (say e.g .MSXdev Wink )

    In case you require only unreleased games, can be submitted an
    improved version of a game already released in another competition ?

    How large should be the improvements/changes to have the entry
    accepted in the [MRC] competition?
    Question

    By Huey

    Prophet (2644)

    Huey's picture

    25-06-2007, 14:50

    Hmmm, interesting.

    Lets say for example Monster Hunter enters the challenge with beter (msx2) gfx and more levels/items/quests and other music (fm-pac/audio/moonsound). But basicly the same engine.

    Is that a valid entry?

    I vote that it is............ But where to draw the line....

    By Ivan

    Ascended (9099)

    Ivan's picture

    25-06-2007, 15:01

    New deadline=more games. Then it is good Smile

    I think that with two OCMs more as price, developers with their entries already finished have more chances to win one of them. I doubt that in 1 year the number of entries will be x3...

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 15:01

    While I'm not giving the answer here (need to discuss things first), if I'd be making such a game as M.H. I'd love to create a new game with the same engine. There'd be more time to spend on art, since all the codework is done. (minus a handful o' unique game things perhaps) Once an engine is done you can spend your time on gfx and music. So, why not do all of us a favor and make a NEW game with the same engine?

    By tfh

    Paragon (1776)

    tfh's picture

    25-06-2007, 15:12

    Hmmm, the one year extension sounds great Smile
    My MSX2 is still parked in a box somewhere after moving to my news house last maybe. Maybe by that time, I will finally have in unpacked Smile Smile Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

    By Huey

    Prophet (2644)

    Huey's picture

    25-06-2007, 15:40

    While I'm not giving the answer here (need to discuss things first), if I'd be making such a game as M.H. I'd love to create a new game with the same engine. There'd be more time to spend on art, since all the codework is done. (minus a handful o' unique game things perhaps) Once an engine is done you can spend your time on gfx and music. So, why not do all of us a favor and make a NEW game with the same engine?

    Well I wasn't talking about a whole new game but a Monster Hunter DX...

    P.s.: Perhaps this is a good idea for a 'history' entry: Metal Gear : Paris

    By viejo_archivero

    Paragon (1372)

    viejo_archivero's picture

    25-06-2007, 15:54

    Imho the MRC, as the organization behind this challenge, has the right to decide wheter to extend the deadline or not. Those kind of decissions are never welcome by everyone, so I guess they have had been discusing this quite a lot before announcing it: a just two-three entries "mega" challenge or extending the thing a bit for it to catch more attention. Which option would you choose as the organizer?...

    Anyway, I'm with pitpan: people that have been stressed in order to get the entry ready (count me in that list) are not problably happy with the decission. But, again, it must have been a hard decision for the MRC: so, MRC challengers, let's polish the thing during this year!

    By Samor

    Paragon (2027)

    Samor's picture

    25-06-2007, 16:06

    I'm just glad MRC is back on track.

    So, what's a good place to start if I want to code something on MSX beyond Basic? Hannibal

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 16:16

    Leech a free assembler from somewhere, hunt some Z80 (e)Book or online course, grab some VDP manual and go! And find out it's tough .. Tongue I guess the ppl in the forum are ready to teach you a few tricks. Years ago the same happened to norakomi.

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    25-06-2007, 16:23

    as the organization behind this challenge, has the right to decide wheter to extend the deadline or not.

    Excuse me, but this is not correct. The organization can decide to change anything if the organization specify it.

    a just two-three entries "mega" challenge or extending the thing a bit for it to catch more attention. Which option would you choose as the organizer?...

    Already I have said it: It could have extended for after the summer, and it would continue without coinciding with other contest.

    So, in that time the contest can "catch more attention".

    By Edwin

    Paragon (1182)

    Edwin's picture

    25-06-2007, 18:12

    So ASK, may I ask how many enties you are preparing to submit on Wednesday?

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    25-06-2007, 18:42

    So ASK, may I ask how many enties you are preparing to submit on Wednesday?

    And Edwin, may I ask what relation has that with the date?

    Don't you think that there is people with programs prepared?

    You can read the Imanok comment:

    It's neither fair for people who have been working under the preassure of the deadline and now they find they have been working overtime for nothing.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 18:49

    That line doesn't explicitly state that there are such people, only what the situation would be for such people. Could be wrong tho. We've one entry: BQMSX, which was finished quite a while ago, without stress I think, as it was way before the deadline.

    By Edwin

    Paragon (1182)

    Edwin's picture

    25-06-2007, 18:53

    And Edwin, may I ask what relation has that with the date?

    Don't you think that there is people with programs prepared?

    You're making the amount of noise as if you have extremely high stakes in the matter.

    And yes, I do think there are people with programs prepared. I have worked the entire weekend to get the code done. So I think I have an idea what plays here. Question is, do you?

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 18:57

    The entire weekend? wtf? don't you mean 'the entire last 3 months' ? Tongue Tongue

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    25-06-2007, 19:13

    You're making the amount of noise as if you have extremely high stakes in the matter.

    That is your interpretation.

    And yes, I do think there are people with programs prepared. I have worked the entire weekend to get the code done. So I think I have an idea what plays here. Question is, do you?

    Then, you must be agree with me in the date matter.
    About the question, I insist, read the Imanok comment.

    By dvik

    Prophet (2200)

    dvik's picture

    25-06-2007, 19:28

    Its may not be ideal to move the deadline of a competition but in this case I think its the most practical thing to do. The option would perhaps been to have the original deadline and then open a new competition with better promotion for next year.

    And remember that this is a hobby competition and its not that uncommon that deadlines move. I had to wait an extra year once for ioccc and that is a much bigger competition (not as nice prices though).

    I hope more entries will go for the bonus point and be released before the original deadline though.

    By Ivan

    Ascended (9099)

    Ivan's picture

    25-06-2007, 19:43

    Let's say that 20 games/demos (yes, I'm being optimistic) were already finished for the initial deadline. Are you saying that in 12 months we are going to have more than 60 new games/demos for MSX? Then please extend the deadline 2 years Tongue

    Seriously speaking, if I were a developer with a finished entry I would consider not submitting it now and try to improve it, maybe that extra point can be surpassed easily polishing a bit that game or demo.

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    25-06-2007, 19:52

    Ok, this is going to be another of those 'long snout posts'. Where to start where to start...

    First, a reply to the general situation. Yes, indeed, there is an element of unfairness in postponing the deadline to a challenge, especially when it is so near the deadline. There are downsides to every decision you could possibly make and as we liked to link a challenge with the anniversary of the MSX computer system we decided to move it up with an entire year. Another reason to delay the challenge deadline is the fact that the Western Edition of the One Chip MSX was postponed as well.

    I think it is safe to say that we have compensated the delay of the challenge with a significant increase of the prizes to be won and a full bonus point to the people who send in an entry on or before the 24th anniversary of MSX. Pitpan's suggestion of letting the Ball Quest coders decide whether or not to move the deadline of the challenge gives all the benefits to the Ball Quest coders and given that their entry was already received on March 15th I think it is safe to say they have not been fighting against any deadline whatsoever. The only reason it has not been posted before is because of personal circumstances (see point 3). Like it or not, this is the decision we have made and given the fact that we're giving away a -huge- set of prizes I think it's fair enough we have something to say about the conditions under which we are giving those prizes away.

    Second, I think there is something seriously wrong with the general attitude of a part of the MSX community these days. Despite the fact that the activity of MSX developers around the world has increased significantly, despite the fact that MSX emulators keep getting better and better, despite the fact that the MSX revival has continuously kept bringing us new developments (amongst which a new MSX computer), despite the fact that the boundaries of the MSX get broken and stretched time and time again there is an increasing tendency to focus on the negative side of things instead of the positive. This isn't doing the MSX community any good at all. How do you think it feels for an active member of the MSX community, who tries to create something nice for MSX users around the world (be it software, hardware, an emulator, a fair or a website/magazine) to hear mostly negative feedback and barely (if at all) positive remarks? I think it's a great way to make people drop their hobby completely - as has happened so often in the past already. Some people seem to take MSX as serious as a matter of life and death. MSX is a hobby and all people involved in it are in it for the fun. Nothing more, nothing less. I sincerely ask you to 'turn those frowns upside down' and start having fun with MSX again, or at least not to bother us with your negativity. I know there are quite a few people who think (partly) alike on this and can only hope they will raise their voice and show their positivity and enthusiasm more often.

    Third. You might have noticed that things were a little different on the MRC during the past year. In fact, there were several factors (or more correctly: there was a combination of several factors) that got me very, very, very close to pulling the plug on MRC entirely. The continuous negativity of a part of the MSX community as mentioned above was one factor, the fact that that negativity was often aimed at me, my friends and the projects I am involved in was another. Last but not least my father became seriously ill a year ago. After a long and difficult time he died of lung cancer a few months ago, aged 59. It goes without saying that 'MSX' wasn't a lot on my mind in the time before and (shortly) after his death. The way some people kept making false accusations, making up conspiracy theories and giving some serious below-the-belt personal attacks made me wonder what I was doing this all for. Nobody spends hours of spare time on something that only gives him mud in the face, now, does he? All this directly lead to me spending little to no time on MRC, not promoting the MEGA Challenge at all. Other MRC team members did what they could (and did an amazing job at it), and one might argue that it's a bad thing that the MRC depends so much on one person but I'd say be glad the MRC is still around and there's still a challenge to compete for.

    I propose we hang on to the following, simple guidelines from now on:

    • MSX is a hobby and the people involved in it are hobbyists. Treat it/them accordingly
    • Delays belong to hobbyist projects. Heck, even the largest commercial enterprises suffer from them. Accept them as a fact of life. Complaining might demotivate the people working on the project, whereas a positive approach might just give that little motivational boost they need
    • Every single person on this planet wants to be treated with respect. Especially when he/she is working on his/her hobby. Take that into account when something pisses you off. Count to 10 before posting your reply and consider how your words might end up on the 'other side of the line'
    • The current activity of the MSX community is exceptional and should not be taken for granted. Just browse the MRC news archive and see how little there was to report about only 5 or 6 years ago. At the time it was an exception for a new MSX game, demo or hardware extension to be released (let alone a new MSX computer) and I'm quite sure many people thought that MSX was about to die a silent death any time soon. Now, we have a vivid scene with a steady amount of releases. We should handle it with care, pride, joy and enthusiasm

    Follow this simple guideline and you will receive my eternal gratitude in return.

    Now then, I hear the MRC is giving away three brand new One Chip MSX computers. Who's game?

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    25-06-2007, 19:53

    As for the question on 'polished MSXdev games'. I don't know how the MSXdev organization thinks about this, but in the MRC MEGA Challenge they would be valid entries for sure!

    By Edwin

    Paragon (1182)

    Edwin's picture

    25-06-2007, 19:55

    Then, you must be agree with me in the date matter.

    I must do nothing. In fact, the situation is not as clear is you might think. For the past couple of months I spent a lot of time in making a good game. In fact, it turned out several magnitudes better than what we ever expected to hand in for the contest. But, it's also still a magnitude less of what it could be. Which makes it rather tempting to put the extra effort in. In fact, that would be due to the extended deadline. What other way would ever give you the option to do the final mad dash to the finish twice? It has not actually been decided, but since I'm in game development for the fun of it and not for the quick prize, making the game better is certainly worth considering.

    As for the time. Three months buys me nothing. I have more projects than this one. And my next effort will have to be put into the msxdev07 game. Which will take the next 6 months to complete. Anything in between those six months would directly interfere with that release. So a deadline extension from less than 9 months would automatically mean that I couldn't do both. At least now I have the choice.

    So pardon me for on agreeing with you, but the quality of the coming releases is much more important to me than any rule.

    By GhostwriterP

    Champion (511)

    GhostwriterP's picture

    25-06-2007, 20:05

    Alright you guys got me motivated again I am in!!! Tongue

    By Edwin

    Paragon (1182)

    Edwin's picture

    25-06-2007, 20:09

    Now there's something I want to see! You have a g9k shot on your site. Could we have the rest that goes around it? Wink

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    25-06-2007, 21:04

    Just finish Dash.. we need to move more boulders here!

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    26-06-2007, 08:48

    And my next effort will have to be put into the msxdev07 game. Which will take the next 6 months to complete. Anything in between those six months would directly interfere with that release. So a deadline extension from less than 9 months would automatically mean that I couldn't do both. At least now I have the choice.

    Must the contest rule's to adapt to you?
    Why don't you say before? You can say to the organization: "change the date because I want to participate in msxdev".
    It is incorrect.

    So pardon me for on agreeing with you, but the quality of the coming releases is much more important to me than any rule.

    In this case because they favor you also you were on disagreeing.

    About the snout propose:


    MSX is a hobby and the people involved in it are hobbyists. Treat it/them accordingly

    Maybe, but that hobby implies an effort and that effort you must treat accordingly, too.


    Complaining might demotivate the people working on the project, whereas a positive approach might just give that little motivational boost they need

    Ok, but doing unexpected changes might demotivate the people, too.


    Every single person on this planet wants to be treated with respect. Especially when he/she is working on his/her hobby. Take that into account when something pisses you off. Count to 10 before posting your reply and consider how your words might end up on the 'other side of the line'

    Ok, but is not disrespectful to change the rules 4 days before?, do you count to 10 before posting the news?

    By MicroTech

    Champion (384)

    MicroTech's picture

    26-06-2007, 10:15

    Another reason to delay the challenge deadline is the fact that the Western Edition of the One Chip MSX was postponed as well.
    IMHO this is not a problem, the jury can declare the winners (at this point without hurry) and prices will be delivered when available.

    * Every single person on this planet wants to be treated with respect. Especially when he/she is working on his/her hobby. Take that into account when something pisses you off. Count to 10 before posting your reply and consider how your words might end up on the 'other side of the line'
    I counted, and I try to see the things from an uncommitted pow but I still think that moving a deadline of 1 year is a lack of consideration towards developers who put effort, passion, work and time in what they do... time which could be used for something else...
    MRC has launched the challenge so MRC should respect rules MRC has written.
    In these terms, if a future challenge will ever be started again, I think a developer would think twice before partecipating...

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    26-06-2007, 11:49

    2 words:

    be positive

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    26-06-2007, 13:21

    ASK: May I ask what your role is in this? You are relatively new on the MRC. Were you planning to actually compete in the contest? Were you personally hurt or affected by the deadline moved or do you just want to nitpick because there is something to moan about?

    Given the fact that I am by far the most active member of the MRC crew (for more than 6 years now already), given the fact that the MRC Foundation does not entirely pay for the OCM prizes (but a large part of it is being donated by me personally) and given the fact that (which people keep forgetting) MRC is a hobby too I say yes, we/I do have quite a big say in setting a new deadline to challenges. Various other challenges were postponed in the past, why is this particular one a problem to you?

    I understand that it can be demotivating to see the deadline move in such a short notice, but I have counted to 10 (and it took me nearly a week, damn it ^_^) and took it into consideration with the rest of the crew. I agree that a hobby implies an effort and that effort you must treat accordingly, too... but if you can't respect that personal grief and unforeseen circumstances can get in the way of those efforts than I can only feel sorry for you. I do know that in this case my personal grief affects a lot of people, but that does not mean you should have more or less respect for it. Again, I was very close on pulling the plug on MRC entirely... now the MRC and the challenge are still there, albeit that the deadline has been postponed with a year. I already look forward to celebrating MSX's 25th anniversary in a spectacular way and if you don't want to party along then that's your loss, not mine.

    MicroTech: I don't see the problem. If you have worked hard and finished your entry in time for the initial deadline, nobody is stopping you from sending it in. You will be rewarded with a bonus point, nice comments from our visitors and many many downloads. In only a few days, Ball Quest is already to break the 200 - downloads barrier. Isn't that what developing for MSX actually is all about? Getting your releases out to the public? Challenges are just a means to get attention -- and perhaps one of three free One Chip MSXes. Wink

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    26-06-2007, 14:02

    May I ask what your role is in this? You are relatively new on the MRC. Were you planning to actually compete in the contest? Were you personally hurt or affected by the deadline moved or do you just want to nitpick because there is something to moan about?

    About the questions, I insist, read the Imanok comment.
    What do you mean about "You are relatively new on the MRC"?, can't I comment?


    Given the fact that I am by far the most active member of the MRC crew (for more than 6 years now already), given the fact that the MRC Foundation does not entirely pay for the OCM prizes (but a large part of it is being donated by me personally) and given the fact that (which people keep forgetting) MRC is a hobby too I say yes, we/I do have quite a big say in setting a new deadline to challenges. Various other challenges were postponed in the past, why is this particular one a problem to you?

    In the msxart - rpg, it had an alone participation, why don't the same?
    I don't know that various other challenges were postponed in the past, how long were postponed? a year?

    I understand that it can be demotivating to see the deadline move in such a short notice, but I have counted to 10 (and it took me nearly a week, damn it ^_^) and took it into consideration with the rest of the crew. I agree that a hobby implies an effort and that effort you must treat accordingly, too... but if you can't respect that personal grief and unforeseen circumstances can get in the way of those efforts than I can only feel sorry for you. I do know that in this case my personal grief affects a lot of people, but that does not mean you should have more or less respect for it. Again, I was very close on pulling the plug on MRC entirely... now the MRC and the challenge are still there, albeit that the deadline has been postponed with a year. I already look forward to celebrating MSX's 25th anniversary in a spectacular way and if you don't want to party along then that's your loss, not mine.

    Excuse me, but I respect but I don't understand the so much time.
    So, it's better that than to close as you say.

    And I haven't said that "I don't want to party", that it has said by you. Be careful.

    By hap

    Paragon (2020)

    hap's picture

    26-06-2007, 14:05

    The only thing I'd moan about is the very short notice, but I won't. MRC has the right to extend the deadline for any reason (or even cancel it, like MSXdev '03 did), it's just bad for their reputation, like MicroTech pointed out: "If a new challenge will be issued in the future, which reliability could be given to the "supposed" expiration date?".

    About the bonus point: at the end of the contest, what's the maximum possible amount of points? I mean, if it's 100, 1 bonus point hardly has any effect.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    26-06-2007, 14:15

    About the questions, I insist, read the Imanok comment.
    Can you just reply to the question without referring to other posts all the time? (I insist! Tongue) Were you going to participate yourself, or not?

    What do you mean about "You are relatively new on the MRC"?, can't I comment?
    You can, he was prolly referring to you being new here, while it's not sure whether you actually were passively around years earlier. If so, you could've known that things aren't as strict here as they are in the FBI..

    In the msxart - rpg, it had an alone participation, why don't the same?
    Having only one entry there, we don't really consider that challenge to have become a succes. It was actually disappointing to see some sorta confirmation on my regular remarks that the scene lacks graphicians. On the other hand, there wasn't a brand-new computer to hand out there, and it was not a very large challenge anyway, so we didn't bother extending it anymore. You can't just compare msxart with this megachallenge, for various obvious reasons. Btw, that msxart's original deadline was already extended.

    I don't know that various other challenges were postponed in the past, how long were postponed? a year?
    The reasons for '1 year' have been explained enough by now I think.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    26-06-2007, 14:24

    like MicroTech pointed out: "If a new challenge will be issued in the future, which reliability could be given to the "supposed" expiration date?".

    What guarantees does MRC have when starting a challenge? There was half a year of time to make something, sofar: 1 entry. Does no-one want a OneChipMSX or what? I think we can stick to these unconfirmed and subjective rules: If there's a considerable amount of entries that justify the scope of the challenge and the prize then the deadline will remain as it was. If there's truly little to nothing, with respect to the scope of the challenge and prize then we'll prolly move the deadline, in order to end up with a decent amount of entries. I guess 'rules' are pretty logical and positive. Remember, challenges are not only here for the developers, but also for the audience. I guess if you were part of a band you wouldn't be playing for a hall with no-one in it.. rite?

    About the bonus point: at the end of the contest, what's the maximum possible amount of points? I mean, if it's 100, 1 bonus point hardly has any effect.
    Prolly a 1..10 scale. 2 years ago there was an Airwaves challenge organized by poke -1,170. He gave scores from roughly 7..8, and I had a -1 penalty. *grmbl* So yes, the scale matters but I guess we can stick to 1..10.

    By poke-1,170

    Paragon (1756)

    poke-1,170's picture

    26-06-2007, 14:47

    well, 1 entry isn't a contest or challenge.
    If there is noone to compete with, then it's not a challenge at all.
    as for the whole respect for deadlines, what the hell ?
    People will always work their ass off on the last moment anyway, if it
    would have been set next year, people would have finished things right before
    the deadline, since people seem to like postponing till the last moment.
    And so what ? If shifting means that more people (like me) can enjoy more games,
    then more people benefit from it now then just handing a price to 1 person.

    By hap

    Paragon (2020)

    hap's picture

    26-06-2007, 14:53

    I agree that under the current circumstances, this decision was probably the best option. My point is that the accumulation of extended deadlines put a scar on the reputation of the MRC challenges, even though the reasons are sensible.
    Here's an idea: To overcome the uncertainty of #of contestants in a future MRC challenge, make people sign up. If a certain amount is reached, the contest starts.

    *edit* or create a rule to set the prizes by amount of entries, for example:
    >0 entries: t-shirt,
    >3 entries: t-shirt + Konami game,
    >7 entries: t-shirt + Konami game + 1chipMSX,
    >12 entries: t-shirt + Konami game + 1chipMSX + a date with snout Tongue

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    26-06-2007, 15:20

    Nah, you'd get bogus-entries, like a BASIC program that loads an image, loads an MB tune, plays it, and waits for a key.

    By hap

    Paragon (2020)

    hap's picture

    26-06-2007, 15:27

    hmm yeah I agree.

    By Huey

    Prophet (2644)

    Huey's picture

    26-06-2007, 16:53

    I'm not surprised by the rescheduling. It's not the first time an MRC challenge is postponed. I do feel that it would have been a good statement have kept the deadline. Things have to start-off somewhere. Look at most anual competitions. They need a starting period and build up the reputation.

    I agree with such a BIG prize as an OCM it would be a shame to give it away when there are only a few entries with low quality. But an entry such as Ball Quest and 1 or 2 potential good entries to be expected on the deadline would justify the OCM for me. BUT I'm not the one donating the prize Wink

    What is done is done and I'm not the one organizing things. I accept the new deadline, there is more important stuff in life.

    @ASK: I understand the point you are trying to make but it is not a matter of right or wrong. It is the way it is, but ofcourse you don't have to agree with it. Neighter do others with your opinion. I hope to see your participation in the competition in the end after all.

    @snout: Satisfied people just sit quietly and enjoy their hobby so don't expect everyone to burry you under hundreds of 'thank you's'. It's not fair but thats how life is. Just look at the daily visitor count and subtract the number of naggers and there you have the number people who enjoy MRC. MRC is one of the nicest places for me to be on the net and got me into MSX again and brought me in contact with great guys (ARTRAG?) with who I can enjoy my hobby once again. And that's supposed to be a big 'pat on the shoulder' for you ( BA-team you fool Wink ).

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    27-06-2007, 08:32

    @hap:

    MRC has the right to extend the deadline for any reason (or even cancel it, like MSXdev '03 did), it's just bad for their reputation

    You imagine that there are some entries, not only one, and the organization close the contest as you say, have they the right to do it?

    @wolf:

    Can you just reply to the question without referring to other posts all the time? (I insist! ) Were you going to participate yourself, or not?

    Well, what is your interest?
    If I would submit a program, would respect the organization the date?

    If you can answer this question, you can imagine the answer to your question, too.

    I don't know that various other challenges were postponed in the past, how long were postponed? a year?

    The reasons for '1 year' have been explained enough by now I think.

    Could you reply to the question, please?
    So, how log were postponed? a year? more, less, the same?

    @Huey:

    I understand the point you are trying to make but it is not a matter of right or wrong. It is the way it is, but ofcourse you don't have to agree with it. Neighter do others with your opinion. I hope to see your participation in the competition in the end after all.

    My opinion is there, it is so time. About the participation, you wait too much.

    By MicroTech

    Champion (384)

    MicroTech's picture

    27-06-2007, 10:29

    @ snout:
    MicroTech: I don't see the problem. If you have worked hard and finished your entry in time for the initial deadline, nobody is stopping you from sending it in. You will be rewarded with a bonus point, nice comments from our visitors and many many downloads.

    When MRC announced MEGA challenge 6 months ago I decided to dedicate all my spare time to my entry, planning/post-poning other projects/activities (not necessarily MSX related) to after the declared deadline.
    I succeded in working on this "hobby" 8 hours per week (on the average) to be able to respect MRC's rules.
    Now I see that an eventually new starting challenge project has 12 months available, and an already started (but not finished in time) project will have (in total) 18 months...

    I'm not able (and I don't want) to work on my challenge anymore and, as a developer:
    - I feel disappointed,
    - I think 1bonus point is unbalanced with respect to a 12 (18) months of time.

    Anyway, you are right when you say it is "only" an hobby, probably I have inflated my passion.

    @ wolf:
    Remember, challenges are not only here for the developers, but also for the audience. I guess if you were part of a band you wouldn't be playing for a hall with no-one in it.. rite?

    I wouldn't play in an empty hall, but if there is 1 person I think the right thing would be playing for respect to the person who has came to listen to my band.

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    27-06-2007, 15:58

    MicroTech/ASK: Pleae don't get me wrong. I do understand and have sympathy with your feelings and am myself disappointed as well that it felt right to postpone yet another MRC Challenge. I'm not asking you to completely agree with that decision, but some understanding for the things that happened and the situation that arose because of that would be appreciated. Thanks!

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    27-06-2007, 16:01

    Well, what is your interest?
    None really. We aren't going to submit this day, we'll finish our current entry until some months after dev7, until dev7 deadline we're full-'evening'-time on dev7. Something you should do as well, rather than complaining about details all the time, details which have been explained dozens of times by now.

    If I would submit a program, would respect the organization the date?
    Read the newspost: submit today before 23:59 CET and you receive a bonuspoint, if not, you have another year (which you don't *need* to use 100%, you can submit next week as well). That's it, love it or leave it. I actually think BQMSX might be the only submission to receive a +1 point.

    I don't know that various other challenges were postponed in the past, how long were postponed? a year?
    A few, not many, I don't know all of 'em, I guess snout can list 'm all from the head, in a splitsecond. But compared to this megachallenge they all had two things in common:
    - they were relatively small challenges, with relatively simple prizes.
    - they weren't aimed at a specific date (like this megachallenge was aimed at the MSX 24th b-day, and next year's deadline is set to the 25th b-day)

    If you can answer this question, you can imagine the answer to your question, too.

    and:


    Could you reply to the question, please?
    So, how log were postponed? a year? more, less, the same?

    funny, you insist on me replying your question, while at the same time you avoid answering the question you were asked.

    again: were you going to participate or not, just say 'yes' or 'no', no stories, no 'insist', no Imanok, no counter-question, no this, no that, just 'yes' or 'no'. If you don't answer, or give weird counterquestions/references, I'll assume a 'no', which would make me think what you're doing here in the first place.

    By MicroTech

    Champion (384)

    MicroTech's picture

    27-06-2007, 16:03

    You are welcome!

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    27-06-2007, 17:32

    Something you should do as well, rather than complaining about details all the time, details which have been explained dozens of times by now.

    Excuse me. I will do, I think.

    again: were you going to participate or not, just say 'yes' or 'no', no stories, no 'insist', no Imanok, no counter-question, no this, no that, just 'yes' or 'no'. If you don't answer, or give weird counterquestions/references, I'll assume a 'no', which would make me think what you're doing here in the first place.

    I will answer as I think. You can assume you want. It is your interpretation.
    About the participation question, I don't know why you insist. You have said you do not have any interest. Why do you continue with the question?

    I think that it must be respect the rules before doing questions for the participation.

    @snout:

    I don't get you wrong. But you must understand that I disagree with this, it is so time.

    but some understanding for the things that happened and the situation that arose because of that would be appreciated. Thanks!

    Well, some understanding is. But I think that some intermediate solution would be correct.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    27-06-2007, 17:40

    Ok, that's an official 'no' then. Hence, you're complaining about a challenge in which you aren't going to compete, hence you're only here to troll. I guess enough has been said by now.

    By hap

    Paragon (2020)

    hap's picture

    27-06-2007, 18:28

    What made you/Edwin decide against submitting your entry this evening?

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    27-06-2007, 19:06

    Uh.. because the game wasn't ready? Tongue

    90% of the game-engine is done
    0% of the game-balancing/strategy-planning is done
    0% of titlescreens/intros are done
    an endtro yes or no, is undecided even, let alone mentioning "0%"
    I guess about 20% of the music is done (very long tunes in MBWave, truly a pain to make with that #&$# settings-scan)

    Some weeks ago we estimated that we could perhaps *just* make it, but you know the drill: there's always another viper waiting for you and at the end of the weekend I more or less had the impression that we'd better cancel this day. So, in the end we pulled the plug of this day.

    As mentioned earlier by Edwin, the game itself is magnitudes beyond what we estimated at forehand, that's actually the cause of this delay: we totally lost conventional MSX-proportions here! While the game is certainly not beyond us, it's certainly beyond the time given for this challenge (keep in mind that we couldn't start at day 1 as we were busy with dev6) Tongue While it'll take a while before it'll be released, I'm sure you'll all be surprised by the result!

    By hap

    Paragon (2020)

    hap's picture

    27-06-2007, 20:07

    While it'll take a while before it'll be released, I'm sure you'll all be surprised by the result!
    looking forward to it already =P

    By Edwin

    Paragon (1182)

    Edwin's picture

    27-06-2007, 20:22

    Actually, I think Wolf underestimated the progress on the game engine. I would say it was 99% done and it could have been finished. Of course, when you start thinking about what could be added, then there's still more room.
    But as Wolf said, if we'd have released today, we'd have a great game engine but little around it. And while that probably is enough to be impressive, it's more fun to have a bit extra. But unfortunately for those waiting, msxdev07 comes first now. Tongue

    By poke-1,170

    Paragon (1756)

    poke-1,170's picture

    27-06-2007, 20:36

    entertain us with sneak preview screenshots Tongue
    or 10 seconds of ingame music damnit !!!

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    28-06-2007, 08:47

    Ok, that's an official 'no' then. Hence, you're complaining about a challenge in which you aren't going to compete, hence you're only here to troll. I guess enough has been said by now.

    I insist, it is your interpretation. Wrong interpretation.
    Maybe, if the rules had respected another thing it had happened and you neither would do questions on participation nor would complain so much.

    By Imanok

    Paragon (1142)

    Imanok's picture

    28-06-2007, 11:37

    again: were you going to participate or not, just say 'yes' or 'no', no stories, no 'insist', no Imanok, no counter-question, no this, no that, just 'yes' or 'no'

    Why no Imanok?? Crying Tongue

    Hence, you're complaining about a challenge in which you aren't going to compete, hence you're only here to troll. I guess enough has been said by now.

    IMHO everybody can express his opinion/worries about the contest, rules, etc... regardless of whether he/she participates or not.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    28-06-2007, 12:52

    Yes, but we make the rules, not ASK, yet he insists on dictating us what to do or what we should've done. When we ask for his motivations we get counterquestions, irrelevant references and other non-info. We've explained how and why the new deadline is moved a year, we've given *all* arguments for that, in all reason. No matter how many times we explain the same thing over and over again, he keeps complaining in an all-familiar way (it's all a big deja-vu I'm having here!). Well ASK: love it or leave it. If you can't love it, then leave it, and organize your own challenge with your own rules and your own deadline somewhere else. We will even report about it!

    So, can he complain here? Yes. Can we be annoyed with it and ask him to get his act together? Suredo!

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    28-06-2007, 13:47


    Yes, but we make the rules, not ASK, yet he insists on dictating us what to do or what we should've done.

    Excuse me. I am not dictating you nothing.
    I have said that I disagree with this and I have suggested a new date, only that.

    organize your own challenge with your own rules

    Or another people, and when you submit your program, that they change the rules.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    28-06-2007, 13:54

    Fine, whatever rocks your boat, now be done with it.

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    28-06-2007, 16:25

    There was neither rocks nor boats.

    By Manuel

    Ascended (15626)

    Manuel's picture

    28-06-2007, 16:36

    So, what was the argument against shifting it only 3 months? Doesn't really overlap with MSXDev and it gives a bit extra time. The only thing is that it doesn't coincide with an anniversary.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    28-06-2007, 17:22

    The only thing is that it doesn't coincide with an anniversary.

    Bingo! Handing out 3 OCM's is well-suited to do on a party! By the way, you might be underestimating the time it takes to make a game. If this deadline was to be moved 3 months, then this would mean 27 September. That leaves anyone who needs all that extra time only 3 months for an MSXdev'07 entry. Depending on the gametype/scale that might be too little. UU1 already took some 3..4 months and ended up unpolished. Bottomline is, even if you move this one only 3 months, you're still colliding with MSXdev'07, with the time needed for a somewhat bigger entry to be exact. Keep in mind that the MSXDev'07 specs were also pumped-up, there might be people who're going to use that extra space.

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    28-06-2007, 18:22

    That leaves anyone who needs all that extra time only 3 months for an MSXdev'07 entry.

    But that is your problem. You did know when the contests started. Must the contest rule's to adapt to you?

    So, what was the argument against shifting it only 3 months? Doesn't really overlap with MSXDev and it gives a bit extra time. The only thing is that it doesn't coincide with an anniversary.

    The argument about after the summer was only a suggestion.
    If the date aniversary is the aim, then, the organization can extend it with 3 months, after the summer and the contest results shows in the aniversary, for example.

    By wolf_

    Ambassador_ (9766)

    wolf_'s picture

    28-06-2007, 18:44

    But that is your problem. You did know when the contests started. Must the contest rule's to adapt to you?
    No, it's a problem for everyone who's aiming to be doing something for both the megachallenge as well as msxdev'07. MRC doesn't aim to put ppl into a problematic position such as having to choose which contest to go for, we rather aim to have lots of releases and activities. A megachallenge deadline in september makes it very tricky for MSXdev'07. Hence, we choose for a situation where there's a big challenge each half year: dev at the end of the year, MRC halfway the year.

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    29-06-2007, 08:18

    No, it's a problem for everyone who's aiming to be doing something for both the megachallenge as well as msxdev'07.

    Well, must the contest rule's to adapt to another contest?

    A megachallenge deadline in september makes it very tricky for MSXdev'07

    The MRC contest started before msxdev'07. That contest set its rules after, Why have you to determine the contest to other contest?

    If after the MRC contest publish, other contest had published in the same date that MRC contest, what had happened?

    By Manuel

    Ascended (15626)

    Manuel's picture

    29-06-2007, 08:57

    Well, I think it's a good thing to take care of other contests. Our community is not that large and having contests interfering is not good if you want the maximum possible entries for both contests (and we want that, because that gives more new MSX products!). The same goes for fairs. It's not nice to let fairs coincide too much, as people will choose only one to go to, instead of going to both.

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    29-06-2007, 10:15

    ASK: MSXdev is an annually returning development competition that was likely to end around the same date as all the previous editions. Had MSXdev or another fairly large scale competition collided with MRC's MEGA-Challenge then we would probably have shifted our deadline as well.

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    29-06-2007, 11:06

    @snout:
    Had MSXdev or another fairly large scale competition collided with MRC's MEGA-Challenge then we would probably have shifted our deadline as well.

    Then the organization must specify it in the rules and the change must be published when the others contest are announced.

    In this way the participants know what can happen.

    By snout

    Ascended (15187)

    snout's picture

    29-06-2007, 11:55

    ASK: As the MRC we -must- do nothing. It is our hobby, crew members put a reasonable amount of efforts in it and that's that. If you don't like what we do (or the way we do it) then find a place that does make you feel comfortable and stop bothering us with it. This discussion has been going on long enough to conclude that we are never going to agree so I see little point in continuing it ad infinitum. Do you?

    We are going to give away three One Chip MSX computers and we do that under -our- conditions, not yours. If you don't like those conditions then simply don't join the challenge and release your software independently or in a challenge that does make you feel comfortable. That's all there is to it.

    By tfh

    Paragon (1776)

    tfh's picture

    29-06-2007, 12:19

    Hehehe... that is like 30 of the same answers for ASK.
    Maybe it's time not to respond anymore and just go Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

    By ASK

    Expert (66)

    ASK's picture

    29-06-2007, 12:28

    @snout:

    As the MRC we -must- do nothing. It is our hobby, crew members put a reasonable amount of efforts in it and that's that. If you don't like what we do (or the way we do it) then find a place that does make you feel comfortable and stop bothering us with it.

    Excuse me. I have not to find any place.

    I have said it and turn it to saying: that comments are suggestion, you like it or not.
    And the intention is not bother to nobody.

    we do that under -our- conditions, not yours.

    When have I set conditions?. This is not true. Be careful.

    If you don't like those conditions then simply don't join the challenge and release your software independently or in a challenge that does make you feel comfortable.

    I will do, I think.

    By Yukio

    Paragon (1541)

    Yukio's picture

    25-09-2007, 03:59

    Cool!
    I was wondering what would be the (good?) ending of this competition ...

    By MicroTech

    Champion (384)

    MicroTech's picture

    19-11-2008, 10:49

    Any news about jury/prices/winners Question

    By JohnHassink

    Ambassador (5400)

    JohnHassink's picture

    19-11-2008, 16:07

    Any news about jury/prices/winners Question

    Little bit of info here:

    http://www.msx.org/MSX-Resource-Center-MEGA-Challenge.newspost4056.html