MSXdev'14 - Results

MSXdev'14 - Results

by JohnHassink on 04-07-2014, 01:11
Topic: Challenges
Languages:

The results of this year's edition of MSXdev are in! Winner of the contest is Nerlaska's Pretty Kingdom.
The ranking is as follows:

1. Pretty Kingdom (Nerlaska Studio)
2. Uridium (Trilobyte + Toni Gálvez)
3. Mr. Cracksman (Relevo Videogames)
4. ZERO and the Castle of Infinite Sadness (Dioniso)
5. Jawbreaker II (Maggoo)
6. Destroyer (CEZ/Retroworks)
7. Nayade Resistance (pentacour)
8. Gorgeous Gemma in Escape from the Space Disposal Planet (Impulse9)
9. Libreway (nitrofurano)
10. CMJN (nitrofurano)

Relevant link: MSXdev'14 - voting thread
Relevant link: MSXdev'14 - winner announcement

Comments (25)

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3032)

sd_snatcher's picture

04-07-2014, 01:45

Congratulation to the winner, and also for all other contestants: so many high quality productions!

I couldn't be more proud for MSX scene being such a creative and productive community! Big smile

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6230)

ARTRAG's picture

04-07-2014, 08:18

I do not want to be polemic or spoil the fun, but I'm not proud at all on how the contest has been conducted: Msxdev has just become the place to solve inner fights among karoshi users and, apart the result (and I'm the first to admit that PK deserve winning), I find unacceptable how Jon moved deadlines and decided to invalid votes. Having lost any interest in msxdev I deleted my karoshi account.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5489)

mars2000you's picture

04-07-2014, 08:39

When someone decides to give only 1 point to 7 games, including the winning game, and a score between 6 and 6.75 to the 3 remaining games, there's obviously a problem with as secret goal the will to destroy the spirit of a great contest. I guess that's something you can't perceive.

To avoid misunderstandings : it's my personal position, as I'm no more co-organizer of the contest, but I support completely the decision that has been taken by the organizers about this very strange vote.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6230)

ARTRAG's picture

04-07-2014, 08:55

Sorry the "spirit" is highly subjective, while rules are written and accepted in advance.
It is not even a mystery, that I do not fully agree with what you call "spirit" (restriction in size of the rom, no mappers, no score for extension to upper standards, dumbass polemics on hybrid modes etc etc).
So let me say "spirit" is cannot be used instead of written rules.

When you are an administrator/referee you have to stick to the policies you have written and shared with the contestants and you cannot add or change things the last days of the competition (which one of the 3 deadlines?) without failing the competition itself. There is no room for any spirit, neither alcoholic.

You may say that the public voting is a wrong choice, I agree, but I accepted it with all the rest of the things I do not agree.
If as contestant I have accepted the rules I do not like, who posed the rules should himself respect them as well.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5489)

mars2000you's picture

04-07-2014, 08:55

What I call "spirit" is not the result of what you consider as limiting rules, but a general positive approach for the development of new games. Just compare how excellent coders such as Jon and Imanok (and I could citate other developers ...) have voted with the strange vote that has been cancelled.

Concerning the rules that you find too restrictive, well you are free to switch to another contest (#msxdev Compo) or even to organize your own contest. In the last case, you will be able to discover how it is not always easy to keep alive the spirit of a contest and how it can be difficult to take some decisions.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6230)

ARTRAG's picture

04-07-2014, 09:10

If I complain of Jon's conduction, would I trust in thespecialist/guver's organization ? Wink
Anyway, let me say that, for me, game production has lost of interest for loooong time (a lifespan of two).

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5489)

mars2000you's picture

04-07-2014, 09:18

I can understand your temporary lost of interest, but sometimes in the life you need to choice between only two bad options and you can therefore only choice the less bad option. In this case, accepting the cancelled vote had a greater risk (good spirit destroyed) than refusing this vote (risk limited to some critics).

By Sander

Ambassador (1845)

Sander's picture

04-07-2014, 12:15

When decisions need to be made, there will always be people who agree with the decision and people who disagree. The joy of making something for MSX computers should come from the producer. I understand that there is some disagreement about the voting system and accepting votes, but please know that here we love to have all those new software and that should count the most imho. People will discover and play those games now and in the future and many of them will not even know about any discussion in the Karoshi forum.

Let's make things for yourself and the MSX users around you. Forget about voting systems. I give all productions and developers a 10+.

Besides, new developers and users coming to the MSX system have to compete with us, the dino's making stuff for the last 30 years. So voting results will always be colored.

By Grauw

Ascended (8325)

Grauw's picture

04-07-2014, 12:29

Congratulations to all the contestants!

I’m amazed that in 2014 the MSX community has created 10 new games!

By hbarcellos

Hero (561)

hbarcellos's picture

04-07-2014, 16:01

Well, everyone should agree that competition is a key factor for human behavior. It should be embedded into our inner self, deep in our brains.

So, I can see two mistakes:
One from AR who decided to enter the competition even knowing that the voting system is, kind-of polemic. (IMHO this system is really a piece of crap for several reasons.)
Another from Karoshi: changing deadlines and invaliding votes is just unacceptable. Once you start a contest, you cannot change any rules unless all participants agree. For sure a vote like the one described my mars was ridiculous, but it only show how crap the voting system was.

IMHO: Karoshi made the worst mistake.

Anyway, my two cents for THE FAIREST MSX contest would be:
- MRC should own it and organize it (largest database and Cold Blooded Dutch guys without Latin feelings, like me: double latin)
- Multi ethnic board of judges, public votes, let's say 4
- Simple mechanism for general audience to vote, being the average result considered as "another judge": total of 5 judges
- Prizes should be focused on promotion, for instance:
---- Front page of MRC
---- Hall of Fame MRC exclusive for MSXDev Winners
---- Unique item (like a MUG or a Bracelet or a necklace or an Oscar) showing: MSX DEV winner '15
---- Interview on some websites and/or even some retro magazines around the world. Shouldn't be hard to get

Any complains? Suggestions?

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

04-07-2014, 17:06

I already expressed my opinion in the Karoshi forums. Just wanted to say here that I agree with ARTRAG and that my mistake was not to behave like him and leave the Karoshi forums instead of trying to convince the organizers that their decisions were unfair.

By hbarcellos

Hero (561)

hbarcellos's picture

04-07-2014, 17:31

So, I propose a simpler voting mechanism here. Same entries, different result.
I'll call it MuffDev'14
A) Best Game overall (choose just one using the meaningless order above as the number. Ex: if you vote for Uridium, say #2)
B) Best Graphics (choose just one using the meaningless order above as the number. Ex: if you vote for Uridium, say #2)
C) Best Sound FX/Music (choose just one using the meaningless order above as the number. Ex: if you vote for Uridium, say #2)

I promise an exclusive interview on MSX História (mtini) and (one) unique item showing that you're the first winner of MuffDev'14

Actually, EUREKA! I just got it...
Never mind about rules and/or anything else.
MRC should organize something like the Oscar. Each year all games launched on that year (any format, no restrictions (assuming it's msx and digitally available), would be automatically participating in the competition.

No deadlines, no worries, each game will be judged based on the year that it was launched! Smile

KUDOS TO ME!

Back to MuffDev, I'll be the first one to vote:
-A) #2
-B) #2
-C) #2

Smile

By hbarcellos

Hero (561)

hbarcellos's picture

04-07-2014, 17:41

Ok guys, 2014 MRC GotY Awards is just waiting to be born...

I demand a chair on the board of judges... :hannibal:

By syn

Paragon (1919)

syn's picture

04-07-2014, 17:59

ARTRAG wrote:

If I complain of Jon's conduction, would I trust in guver's organization ? Wink

Fyi, organizing the #msxdev compo is a group effort. GuyveR800 has work in it, as well as many others. If you dont trust #msxdev compo then you dont trust me either... after all the effort and time I put in it this seriously hurts. If you have any valid complaints/ideas regarding the compo please contact me privately, so we can make it a better compo, one that you DO like. Wink

hbarcellos wrote:

Well, everyone should agree that competition is a key factor for human behavior. It should be embedded into our inner self, deep in our brains.

So, I can see two mistakes:
One from AR who decided to enter the competition even knowing that the voting system is, kind-of polemic. (IMHO this system is really a piece of crap for several reasons.)
Another from Karoshi: changing deadlines and invaliding votes is just unacceptable. Once you start a contest, you cannot change any rules unless all participants agree. For sure a vote like the one described my mars was ridiculous, but it only show how crap the voting system was.

IMHO: Karoshi made the worst mistake.

Judging from what I have read, I didn't see much wrong in their decisions. I don't know the exact reasoning behind ramones voting, but I just felt they were rather harsh. Ofcourse everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion but I doubt Karoshi would invalidate his votes without a good reason.

Quote:

Anyway, my two cents for THE FAIREST MSX contest would be:
- MRC should own it and organize it (largest database and Cold Blooded Dutch guys without Latin feelings, like me: double latin)
- Multi ethnic board of judges, public votes, let's say 4
- Simple mechanism for general audience to vote, being the average result considered as "another judge": total of 5 judges

Why would an MRC contest be magically more fair than any other one? The MSX scene is not that big, if you mean they can use judges instead of voting, they probably pick their judges from the same pool of potential volunteers that the previous editions of MSXdev'xx used. Are you saying those weren't handled fair?

Also what is not fair with #msxdev Compo's voting system?

Either way, I don't see anything wrong with a voting system. I rather have everyone working on development /entering the contest instead of watching on the sidelines and then judging when its done. For instance look at #msxdev Compo 2012, where almost everyone who helped organizing it, participated in the competition.

Quote:

- Prizes should be focused on promotion, for instance:
---- Front page of MRC
---- Hall of Fame MRC exclusive for MSXDev Winners
---- Unique item (like a MUG or a Bracelet or a necklace or an Oscar) showing: MSX DEV winner '15
---- Interview on some websites and/or even some retro magazines around the world. Shouldn't be hard to get

All of MSXdev'xx entries including winners are already a hall of fame http://msxdev.msxblue.com/?page_id=10, also winners have been on the frontpage every year afaik.

I agree some interview either on msx related websites or elsewhere is a good idea.

Anyway back on topic:

I played a few of the MSXdev '14 entries, some I liked better then others. Congratz to the winners, I thought it was a good entry, but others were fine as well. Lets not forget that the results are what matters, proving yet again that after over 30 years, MSX is still alive!

By hbarcellos

Hero (561)

hbarcellos's picture

04-07-2014, 18:50

@syn, forget about all that. I don't care anymore. The more competitions the better: BASIC, ROM, MSX1, MSX2, 10 liners, DSK,...

Each year Cold-Blooded Dutches will run

MRC GotY Awards

or, maybe:

MSX GotY Awards

By Grauw

Ascended (8325)

Grauw's picture

04-07-2014, 20:14

hbarcellos wrote:

- MRC should own it and organize it (largest database and Cold Blooded Dutch guys without Latin feelings, like me: double latin)

Haha Smile.

Reading the threads, I think it’s a bit of a storm in a teacup. Yes some things were said that weren’t nice, some votes were a bit silly… But there’s no need to blow it out of proportion. Clearly organising a compo is hard if after 14 editions there are still mistakes Smile. Nobody here’s a professional organisation, mistakes can be made and lessons are learned.

In hindsight maybe the judging shouldn’t have been open for all, or the rules about what constitutes a valid vote should be more strict and clear about how to deal with compatibility issues, etc. In hindsight maybe it was wiser to keep the silly vote valid for the sake of the integrity of the rules. Let’s hope we learn from this for future competitions.

MSXDev has been organised successfully for many years, and even though it is not perfect, let’s put some faith and gratitude in the organisers. I’m sure it took a lot of effort. I hope they will continue to organise it in the future, even when not everybody thinks the rules are 100% perfect, because the MSXDev competition is IMO a huge asset to the MSX world.

Edit: So I don’t say that some critique isn’t valid. But if we aren’t nice and listen to each other, the result might be that there is no competition anymore. In my opinion the issues mentioned are relatively minor, and solvable. It seems a public discussion about the next competition’s rules would be fruitful. But let’s not cloud the conclusion of this very successful competition with too much controversy Smile.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5489)

mars2000you's picture

04-07-2014, 20:39

Grauw wrote:

. Clearly organising a compo is hard if after 14 editions there are still mistakes Smile.

Actually, it was the 12th edition (first edition was MSXdev'03), but that's a detail. I can see here a relation with the 12 signs of the Zodiac : when you come at the end of a first cycle, another cycle is beginning and I'm pretty sure that this second cycle of MSXdev' history will include many new nice and surprizing games. Let's keep on going on the positive side of things and let's not remain fixed on some bad little things !

By riquet

Master (166)

riquet's picture

04-07-2014, 21:02

Grauw wrote:

I think it’s a bit of a storm in a teacup.

+1

This edition was a very interesting contest with many good games...
The winner is the MSX community Cool

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6230)

ARTRAG's picture

04-07-2014, 23:58

riquet, you are too optimist, the problem is that msxdev isn't anymore the contest of msx community, but just a place for inner showdowns among Spanish users of Karoshi forum.
IMO this is a loss for the msx scene that cannot be compensated by a couple of new games.

By KdL

Paragon (1220)

KdL's picture

05-07-2014, 01:00

like +10 new games!! Wink

By hbarcellos

Hero (561)

hbarcellos's picture

05-07-2014, 20:05

looks like this topic is "morally" locked...

By mesiasmsx

Prophet (3137)

mesiasmsx's picture

06-07-2014, 01:38

I dont' understand this method of votes...I don't understand why Uridium or Mr. Cracksman don't won...

@KdL: Quantity or playable games? This is the question...

I don't see 10 complete games or 10 playable games...A exception for 4-5 games...

Congratulations for Uridium, i make the pre-order and waiting coming soon!

By hit9918

Prophet (2866)

hit9918's picture

06-07-2014, 02:46

I would say there are not enough awards.
Could give more credit than just a linear list
tech award
graphics award
sound
gameplay
original game idea

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5400)

JohnHassink's picture

08-07-2014, 05:00

I would like the next MSXdev to have a more lenient ROM size limit, and, more importantly: a designated jury.
Not that I think this was a bad one. Every game that has been submitted to this MSXdev had something interesting, even the unfinished ones. \m/
I thoroughly enjoyed this new MSX year,thanks to MSXdev. And I hope this inspires more people to join existing, or organise other MSX programming contests, but still, we would miss the good old MSXdev, right?
So, let's fire up the engines for MSXdev'15! MSX(dev) for ever! Smile
Thank you all.

By snout

Ascended (15187)

snout's picture

08-07-2014, 13:28

Congratulations to the winners of the challenge. To me, Pretty Kingdom is a well deserved winner as apart from being a nice game in a genre we don't see all too often anymore it appears to have a bit of X-factor going on as well. Can't quite put my finger on what it is exactly, but the game title and artwork do seem to help. That said, it would not have surprised me had one of the other top 5 games won.