V9990 is not part of MSX

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By mars2000you

Enlighted (6175)

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14-01-2022, 21:49

I've always thought that, considering that it's just an alien VDP in the MSX universe.

It is now confirmed by Kay Nishi himself:

https://twitter.com/nishikazuhiko/status/1481944938564952064

"If your community is committed to 9990 video, That is not MSX and even threatening me to protect your vested interested of 9990 games, I am crystal clear that we are not going to support that chip. You should search the history how 9990 was born and rejected.

Yamaha fail to deliver 9978(later 9990) in time for MSX3. That was the reason name changed to Turbo R. We had only fast CPU. Then Pana used delayed Video chip without our consent saying extra fanctions will be machine depanding non MSX functions.

then by the side, yamaha gave the knowhows of video chip to nintendo and created super famicom without telling us anything. Was that a fair business practices? We dont think so. So we decided not to use 9990 for ever."

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By Grauw

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14-01-2022, 22:27

I think it’s nice that Nishi confirms the word on the street that the V9990 was a result of the V9978 not being finished in time for the turboR.

V9990 clearly has an MSX connection, but it was of course never part of the MSX standard. The V9990 and OPL4 are a product of, and part of, the “post-commercial” MSX scene.

I think it is a bit late now to still be sour about Yamaha’s failure to complete the V9978 in time. But then again, Nishi was not being addressed very respectfully so I could understand that would make him a bit sharp in his answer.

The essence of MSX is expandability, so as long as this new hardware Nishi & co are working on is MSX standards compliant, we will continue to be able to use all of our V9990 and OPL4 hardware.

I don’t really agree with your choice of words “alien”, since the VDP was originally being custom built for the MSX the ties are clearly there from the inception, and thanks to Sunrise it has after all been part of MSX history for the past three decades.

By Grauw

Ascended (10558)

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14-01-2022, 22:32

Nishi wrote:

Then Pana used delayed Video chip without our consent saying extra fanctions will be machine depanding non MSX functions.

By the way, does anyone know what this is about? The V9990 was never put into production hardware anywhere, was it? Aside from maybe a Pachinko machine or so. And when I think about Panasonic after the turboR only the 3DO comes to mind, and that has vastly different hardware…

By DamnedAngel

Master (246)

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14-01-2022, 22:41

I don't mean to sound harsh, but my opinion on Nishi's say is very clear:

I couldn't care less.

I think it is great that we have the V9990, OPL4, Ethernet, SD interfaces, Carnivores, WiFi, MP3 and the rest of those alien hardware.

And I think it would be nice if we had a (limited) VGA card, so we could run SymbOS with more screen space.

Do you know what definetely wouldn't be in the MSX universe? A machine with which our V9990 carts wouldn't work.

By sdsnatcher73

Prophet (2953)

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14-01-2022, 23:07

Grauw wrote:
Nishi wrote:

Then Pana used delayed Video chip without our consent saying extra fanctions will be machine depanding non MSX functions.

By the way, does anyone know what this is about? The V9990 was never put into production hardware anywhere, was it? Aside from maybe a Pachinko machine or so. And when I think about Panasonic after the turboR only the 3DO comes to mind, and that has vastly different hardware…

Maybe he means they used V9958 without consent and delayed refers to the VDP slowing down/delaying the whole MSX turbo R? Well too bad all this happened but it’s just water under the bridge…

By karloch

Prophet (2157)

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14-01-2022, 23:21

People are overreacting to Nishi's statements, and I agree that he was not being properly addressed.

The MSX standard defines a computer that is open and extensible (slots), and as result of that, we have the myriad of hardware extensions in our beloved machines. Quite a lot of these extensions -like the V9990- are not part of the MSX standard itself, but I hardly see how is that a problem. You can think -for example- in SCC: it was never part of the MSX standard, but that didn't prevent Konami from developing the chip and use it in their commercial MSX games.

So I vote to stop all this non-sense about whatever hardware should be part of the standard or not. I would love to see all the community united in supporting Nishi with his new MSX project, whatever that could be; it is the least we could do for the person that we owe so much.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6175)

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14-01-2022, 23:23

Grauw wrote:
Nishi wrote:

Then Pana used delayed Video chip without our consent saying extra fanctions will be machine depanding non MSX functions.

By the way, does anyone know what this is about? The V9990 was never put into production hardware anywhere, was it? Aside from maybe a Pachinko machine or so. And when I think about Panasonic after the turboR only the 3DO comes to mind, and that has vastly different hardware…

Maybe he refers to this:
"The VDP was eventually delivered in 1992, two years after its planned deadline, by which time the market had moved on. In an attempt to reduce its financial loss, Yamaha stripped nearly all V9958 compatibility and marketed the resulting V9990 E-VDP III as a video-chipset for PC VGA graphic cards, with moderate success."

But I can read 1991 on the VDP used in the Pachinko machine: http://blakey.s14.xrea.com/gjunk/Pachimoni1.html

By Manuel

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15-01-2022, 00:13

My humble opinion: if you think along the lines of MSX2 or MSXturboR, and especially if you hear this story, for me it becomes even clearer, that if you would want to extrapolate what was commercially released to MSX3, it would be an MSXturboR with a V9990 (it's the closest actually released silicon to what you have to the unfinished V9978). The OPL4 also makes sense, as it is/was a follow up to the OPL chips that were part of the standard.
So, to me, if we speak about MSX3, the most logical thing is MSXturboR with V9990 and OPL4. Ideally, to make this combination more like what would/may have been the V9978, the V9958 of the turboR should be superimposed on the V9990. This is the only missing thing, at least not something easy to get.

OK, that's my dreaming Smile

The fact that Mr Nishi rejects V9990 is more like a personal thing, I think, as is pretty clear from his story. And yeah, I understand that it reminds him of some bitter times that he'd rather forget.

By PingPong

Prophet (3885)

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15-01-2022, 00:04

to me the v9990 appear as one of the best vdp on msx. not only speed wise. It also addresses a lot of the stupid design 'features' on V99x8 that have their roots into TMS VDP.
I think that they should never had tried to achieve v99x8 compatibility in a hypotetical msx3 in a single chip. They should have introduced the v9990 as it is. giving the ability to superimpose the v9958 video on newer msxes only for legacy compatibility reasons

By gdx

Enlighted (5319)

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15-01-2022, 08:52

V9990 is a (unofficial) part of MSX! Wink

Manuel wrote:

I understand that it reminds him of some bitter times that he'd rather forget.

Me too.

PingPong wrote:

to me the v9990 appear as one of the best vdp on msx.

I agree.

Ping wrote:

They should have introduced the v9990 as it is.

I think it's impossible because copyrights/patents and he can do much better now.

karloch wrote:

I would love to see all the community united in supporting Nishi with his new MSX project

As for me, it depends on the project. For now, I'm not convinced by the cartridge to put in a current MSX. It makes me think about the MA-20. One of the most bad idea as extension we had on MSX because unsuitable to the standard.

By hamlet

Scribe (4094)

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15-01-2022, 10:17

I regret that Mr Nishi feels ignored here; but the fact is that the MSX community has kept the standard alive for the last decades. Nishi wouldn't have to worry about a successor at the moment if it weren't for the busy developers and the homebrew scene that have steadily developed the machine since the nineties.

I'm not a fan of developments that don't conform to the standard - but here I see Nishi going it alone. It's a slap in the face to the western fanboys who made MSX what it is and kept the name going.
V9990 and OPL4 are a important part of MSX history now. Like the SFG01/05 or the SCC they are a extension not a given or required hardware. But that is what MSX makes it all.

MSX is alive and developing.
That's good and even dinosaurs have to realise that. Smile

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