Is the One Chip MSX a real MSX or not?

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Par dvik

Prophet (2200)

Portrait de dvik

10-02-2007, 20:43

yes, it is an MSX. Why? Because MSX Association says so.
This is indeed imo the only valid reason to call the OCM a real MSX. But it doesn't mean it is a real MSX as in not emulated. Its real in the sense its officially approved but I strongly believe that how approved it is, its still a hardware emulation of a real MSX. I think this is really part of why this discussion can live. Its all about the definition of 'real MSX' vs 'emulated'.

I think there is nothing that says the OCM can't be a real MSX which is emulated in VHDL.

Par Latok

msx guru (3861)

Portrait de Latok

10-02-2007, 20:45

yes, it is an MSX. Why? Because MSX Association says so.
This is indeed imo the only valid reason to call the OCM a real MSX. But it still doesn't mean it is a real MSX as in not emulated. Its real in the sense its officially approved but I strongly think that how approved it is, its still a hardware emulation of a real MSX. I think this is really part of why this discussion can live. Its all about the definition of 'real MSX'.

I suppose there is nothing that says the OCM can be a real MSX which is emulated in VHDL.Indeed the only valid reason. And I don't care about that parallel, non os-based, 1chip circuited or emulated-blablabla.... It's not relevant. Question is: do we want to use this device which is being labelled 'MSX' by the authority.

Par dvik

Prophet (2200)

Portrait de dvik

10-02-2007, 20:49

I mistyped the last statement in my last post so I repost it here for clearification:

There is nothing that says the OCM can't be a real MSX which is emulated in VHDL.

I.e. the OCM can be both real and emulated at the same time.

Par Latok

msx guru (3861)

Portrait de Latok

10-02-2007, 20:50

dvik: I agree completely.

Par dvik

Prophet (2200)

Portrait de dvik

10-02-2007, 20:52

Question is: do we want to use this device which is being labelled 'MSX' by the authority.

This is indeed a very interesting question. I posted a new topic with this (or a very similar) question here

Par tfh

Prophet (3055)

Portrait de tfh

10-02-2007, 21:00

What if I replace the MSX VHDL-code with ZX-81 code and draw a Spectrum logo on the OCM? Is it still an MSX? Tongue

Par Ramones

Champion (264)

Portrait de Ramones

10-02-2007, 21:05

One question, single question ...

OCM "emulates" *real* VDP9938 timings? And Z80?

Example:

If in MSX1 you send data to VDP without waits, VDP crash...

outi
outi

in NO VBL time, crash

If in MSX2 you send data to VDP without waits ... VDP crash

out(98h),a
out(98h),a

in NO VBL time ... crash ...

TurboR machine make waits automatic for compatibility in R800... well...

But I'm a coder. If I want that my programs run fine in ALL MSX family, if is MSX1 programs, I use correct waits ... If is MSX2 I use correct waits ... and the programs are really 100% compatible with all MSX.

If I send data to OPLL, I do waits if use R800 ...

Is this necessary in MSX Emulators (openmsx, BlueMSX) ? NO. Is this necessary in OCM? I guess ... no. And this is BIG problem.

Problem for new coders with only OCM machines, or emulators.

Please ... see DEV programs ... Some programs crash in REAL MSX1. Whats the problem? Use emulators.

And this is bad new for MSX users.

From the topic of the thread ... is OCM real or emulate MSX.

Well... is a MSX, ok. But is this new MSX is the new platform for the new users, MSX can have problems with new soft. And I want PLAY and USE new utils or new games in my "old" MSXs ... and in my new OCM.

The discussion is stupid. I suppose that this discussion is the same discussion when new Turbo R machine, appears in the market ... 15 years back ... Is Turbo R a new MSX ? Wink

If you want use OCM, use OCM. If you want use old MSX machine, use old MSX machine. But, please ... make your programs 100% compatible. Smile

Par Latok

msx guru (3861)

Portrait de Latok

10-02-2007, 21:06

What if I replace the MSX VHDL-code with ZX-81 code and draw a Spectrum logo on the OCM? Is it still an MSX? Tongue

If MSX Association authorizes your ZX-81 code and your beautifully drawn Spectrum logo and labels that as an MSX: yes, it is an MSX. Point proven. Thank you, tfh.

Par dvik

Prophet (2200)

Portrait de dvik

10-02-2007, 21:11

Quote:
What if I replace the MSX VHDL-code with ZX-81 code and draw a Spectrum logo on the OCM? Is it still an MSX?

If MSX Association authorizes your ZX-81 code and your beautifully drawn Spectrum logo and labels that as an MSX: yes, it is an MSX. Point proven. Thank you, tfh.
MSX-A must of course call your device an MSX, but if they do it sure is an MSX (still emulated though Wink )

Par Latok

msx guru (3861)

Portrait de Latok

10-02-2007, 21:16

One question, single question ...

OCM "emulates" *real* VDP9938 timings? And Z80?

Example:

If in MSX1 you send data to VDP without waits, VDP crash...

outi
outi

in NO VBL time, crash

If in MSX2 you send data to VDP without waits ... VDP crash

out(98h),a
out(98h),a

in NO VBL time ... crash ...

TurboR machine make waits automatic for compatibility in R800... well...

But I'm a coder. If I want that my programs run fine in ALL MSX family, if is MSX1 programs, I use correct waits ... If is MSX2 I use correct waits ... and the programs are really 100% compatible with all MSX.

If I send data to OPLL, I do waits if use R800 ...

Is this necessary in MSX Emulators (openmsx, BlueMSX) ? NO. Is this necessary in OCM? I guess ... no. And this is BIG problem.

Problem for new coders with only OCM machines, or emulators.

Please ... see DEV programs ... Some programs crash in REAL MSX1. Whats the problem? Use emulators.

And this is bad new for MSX users.

From the topic of the thread ... is OCM real or emulate MSX.

Well... is a MSX, ok. But is this new MSX is the new platform for the new users, MSX can have problems with new soft. And I want PLAY and USE new utils or new games in my "old" MSXs ... and in my new OCM.

The discussion is stupid. I suppose that this discussion is the same discussion when new Turbo R machine, appears in the market ... 15 years back ... Is Turbo R a new MSX ? Wink

If you want use OCM, use OCM. If you want use old MSX machine, use old MSX machine. But, please ... make your programs 100% compatible. Smile

MSX2 programs don't run on MSX-machines. MSX turboR programs don't run on MSX2-machines. Still, both MSX2 and MSX turboR machines are MSX machines. No one questions that. Same counts for 1chipMSX. If MSX Association says this device is an MSX, so be it. And whether it's compatible? Hopefully, with future VHDL updates, MSX Association creates a computer which suits our modern needs. I can't imagine this MSX being compatible with MSX, MSX2 and MSX turboR. I would like the idea of backwards compatibility, though.

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