Now it is good time to get a brand new MSX monitor!

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Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

29-11-2013, 21:49

Ok, first Bosch monitor received. Nice device! Pretty much exactly the same size as my Philips CM11342/00G video monitor.

I stacked the monitors and connected them at the same time to Panasonic Turbo R ST. Bosch with composite, screen on the bottom and Philips with RGB on top (of course). The first picture has the Bosch's brightness and contrast adjustments at 50%. As you can see, the Bosch's picture is very blurry and almost unwatchable.

...and then to my surprise, the best image I got by cranking the brightness and contrast all the way to 100 on the Bosch. In this second picture, I also switched on the "underscan" mode on the Bosch, and adjusted the color tint setting from 50 (default) to 60.

It hurts my eyes to look at that, but it's a lot clearer. The photos were taken with an iPhone 5, and it of course automatically adjusted for the increased overall brightness, making the Philips's picture seem dimmer in the second photo than in the first one. In reality, the Philips looked about the same to my eyes in both cases.

I hope to obtain an RGB-to-S-video converter sometime in the future, to get a better image to the Bosch from the TRs. My Commodore 64s look perfectly fine with composite though... ;)

Par sd_snatcher

Prophet (3483)

Portrait de sd_snatcher

30-11-2013, 12:20

Quote:

I hope to obtain an RGB-to-S-video converter sometime in the future, to get a better image to the Bosch from the TRs. My Commodore 64s look perfectly fine with composite though... Wink

Sorry, but why would you need a RGB-to-S-Video converter? The Turbo-R's already have S-Video output. Or is there any problem with the S-video output of your Turbo-R?

Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

30-11-2013, 14:04

Doh! That's right. Big smile I had totally forgotten about that, because I had never used it. I'll do new tests now. Wink

It's good to realize that now, and not after I've bought or even built one.

Par Marq

Champion (387)

Portrait de Marq

30-11-2013, 14:08

Could be that the monitor will get confused by 50 Hz NTSC, though. Quite sure you want to run the 50 Hz modes, too Smile Please report!

I have one of these and it has worked fine in most cases. Easy to convert it to composite, too, if needed:
http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=17

Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

30-11-2013, 14:46

Tested, doesn't work. Bosch shows 50Hz NTSC as black and white. Sad

Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

30-11-2013, 15:00

Maybe this is also the reason I had previously only used the RGB output... Very few display devices understand a situation where the vertical refresh is 50Hz, but color is NTSC coded.

Anyway, 60Hz NTSC modes are much better with S-video. I couldn't get the colors 100% right with any combination of brightness/contrast/tint/sharpness, but with brightness and contrast at 60 it was pretty close.

Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

01-12-2013, 11:03

So if someone wonders what that was about, it is

European PAL MSX machines, 50Hz mode -> composite -> Bosch : OK
European PAL MSX machines, 50Hz mode -> S-Video -> Bosch : OK (well I didn't actually test this case)

Japanese NTSC MSX machines, 60Hz mode -> composite -> Bosch : OK
Japanese NTSC MSX machines, 60Hz mode -> S-Video -> Bosch : OK

Japanese NTSC MSX machines, 50Hz mode -> composite -> Bosch : NOT OK
Japanese NTSC MSX machines, 50Hz mode -> S-Video -> Bosch : NOT OK

When watching European things on Turbo R or MSX2+, you need to use an NTSC machine in 50Hz mode. So the only solution is to bypass the Bosch monitor's color coding autodetection logic (which seems to be: if 50Hz vertical refresh rate, then use PAL decoding). This can be done by... (1) using RGB all the way (but the Bosch monitor doesn't offer an RGB input without modifications), or (2) use an RGB -> PAL S-Video or PAL composite converter.

By the way, I didn't try feeding the Bosch 100V/60Hz power... I wonder if that would change the color coding detection logic in any way. Probably not.

Par Marq

Champion (387)

Portrait de Marq

01-12-2013, 11:14

One more combination: an Euro MSX2 with 60 Hz?

Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

01-12-2013, 20:58

Philips NMS 8250, 50Hz PAL composite --> Bosch : OK
Philips NMS 8250, 60Hz PAL composite --> Bosch : NOT OK

I entered the command vdp(10)=0 in BASIC, and ... -> black and white display.

Par yzi

Champion (444)

Portrait de yzi

03-12-2013, 20:45

The brightness mystery is SOLVED!

I got a second Bosch today and noticed that the factory settings weren't really "50" for everything. They were (reminder to self)

BRIGHTNESS 80
CONTRAST 70
SHARPNESS 75

Once set to these values, the picture is perfectly fine. Well, as good as it can be with composite or S-video. (I even tested with 100V power, and it didn't make any difference.)

Here's a quick comparison of tR BASIC screen on (1) Bosch NTSC composite, (2) Bosch NTSC S-video, (3) Philips RGB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSHWECW6_1s

And another (Space Manbow paused screen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hEZe5RgQqU

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