REQUEST: Demos

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Par MR.HAWARD2.0

Supporter (9)

Portrait de MR.HAWARD2.0

11-09-2021, 18:20

Found a discussion here. Browsing trough it it looks like someone had some success with a Gotek drive, probably re-flashed with HxC firmware(?).

I just got my highly modified SV738 up, but composite video out is barely readable. I have RGB and composite sync available on some pins. What are you guys using nowadays for 15kHz monitors? My old RGB/SCART TV has given up (dried electrolytic caps and I'm too lazy to change them).
I know there's a list somewhere of 15kHz monitors, but they also need to manage the 50Hz vertical sync. And that's not common. AFAIK NEC has hijacked the "multisync" nomenclature and used it as a brand/model name, so you can't trust them. Other brands (BenQ) doesn't specify HSYNC range so you have to guess and hope that it works.

Par SjaaQ

Master (247)

Portrait de SjaaQ

11-09-2021, 19:37

I just bought the cheapest, smallest LCD HD tv from Amazon, which still had scart on it.

For me it was the Dyon 22" https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B075R48B14?ref_=pe_19967891_4229704..., which was 68 EUR at the time.

Alternatives I also got:
* Sony KV-14M1 14" CRT (on of the most recent "tubes") but my children hate it for that high pitch tone.
* Sony LMD-1420 which is a pro broadcast LCD but they now seem rare. There are also several other (tube) types to be found in the broadcast range.
* CTX CC-3435 multiscan monitor, which I still got from the 486 time. Next to the 15Khz modes, this one also supports the "doublescan" modes of the Amiga and was my main monitor at the time.
* SCART to HDMI convertor from aliexpress, but I have trouble getting that one to work on modern LCD TV's. Or it is broken, I don't use it anymore.

Par Grauw

Ascended (10174)

Portrait de Grauw

11-09-2021, 20:21

If you just want it to work with a modern TV, get a made-in-China SCART to HDMI converter, they are white label and sold under many different brands. Be aware that they add a fair amount of latency and show deinterlacing artifacts.

If you want really high quality I recommend an Open Source Scan Converter (OSSC) or RetroTink 5X Pro. Both give great picture quality, though fair warning the OSSC can be more fiddly in terms of TV compatibility, while the latter is quite expensive and availability is limited. I’ve got the OSSC which works great with my Dell monitor, Samsung TV and LG TV.

Par MR.HAWARD2.0

Supporter (9)

Portrait de MR.HAWARD2.0

11-09-2021, 21:31

I'm thinking about getting a conversion board like this one. Still, a monitor that supports 15kHz would be the best.
There seem to be some SCART-hdmi converters available, but my guess is they are using the composite video signal in the scart cable (not the RGB).

Par Grauw

Ascended (10174)

Portrait de Grauw

11-09-2021, 22:39

MR.HAWARD2.0 wrote:

There seem to be some SCART-hdmi converters available, but my guess is they are using the composite video signal in the scart cable (not the RGB).

They do use the RGB signal, but they are designed for VCR video recorders and not 80s game consoles & home computers. They do not understand 240p progressive video so they deinterlace everything, and latency also isn’t a concern for VCRs. Lastly their output is not very sharp, similar to the OSSC’s lowest scaling mode. Not the end of the world, but not great either. By the way, if your TV has a SCART input, it uses the same or a similar chip with the same limitations.

I have used one of them in the past, it’s ok for casual use where you just want a readable video output on your modern display. But use them with games a lot and you will start to notice the issues with deinterlacing artefacts during motion and the lag.

Par MR.HAWARD2.0

Supporter (9)

Portrait de MR.HAWARD2.0

12-09-2021, 09:50

I found out some while ago that SCART, in itself, on a monitor is no guarantee that the RGB signals are used.
Many LCD TV or Projectors simply use the Composite video in the SCART connector (since composite video input is also implemented as an A/V RCA input). I actually tried to use SCART on my Sony projector and a smaller LG TV, and both of them produced the composite video picture. I fed pin 20 (composite video input/sync input) with the composite VIDEO, not the Composite Sync (as produced from the VDP). But that works for the old CRT, which still use RGB signals and sync from the composite sync (pin 20).

Par Metalion

Paragon (1451)

Portrait de Metalion

12-09-2021, 17:25

Well of course...
SCART is just a connector supporting multiple output/input signals (composite, S-video, RGB), when fully wired. What the device ouputs and what the receiver inputs is only linked to their respective capacities and internal logics.

Par MR.HAWARD2.0

Supporter (9)

Portrait de MR.HAWARD2.0

15-09-2021, 01:56

Yes, and it makes it difficult to find a monitor/tv that uses the rgb signals. Even if the car looks like a Ferrari there might be a moped engine inside, and you can't tell until you have bought it.

Anyway I got a bit restless and fixed my old CRT. Of course its clumsy and slow but there's something special with that humming and electrostatic crackling when drawing the hand over the screen. And the pixels also looks just enough blurred. At least I can read text in 80 columns.

So now back on topic - demo request. I created a DSK image of a demo disk where I had (some 30ish years ago) gathered some intros for cracked games. When I tested it in BlueMSX it didn't work all the way, but on my recently revived SV738 it does work (except the demos from BAS which were missing the basic loader for some reason). I am not sure why. Supposedly it should have worked on any MSX1, so the fact that I've added 512k RAM + another DOS + some other stuff in the SV738 should not really matter. Maybe read errors while creating the dsk.

I noticed though that the SV328 (using Digital Research disk io) is several times faster in loading than SV738 (with Microsoft disk io). Maybe I should have ported the game disk loader.
Some intros were never backported to MSX and I guess they are doomed to rest in peace with the SV328.

Is there a favorite file sharing service for DSK files? Maybe I can upload the demo dsk for someone else to test. It's only 720k.

Par mtn

Champion (263)

Portrait de mtn

02-10-2021, 12:05

How happy I am that my old thread from 2012 (!) got resurrected!

@MR.HAWARD2.0, I used to bug and pester you alot some 30 years ago. You were always cool and helpful, even though I didnt even have a diskdrive back then. Just my old 728.

Btw, I guess you should be able to upload the demo disk to msx.org?

Also, did digging out your MSX collection spark your interest again? Atleast alittle?

Regards, Jimmy

Par MR.HAWARD2.0

Supporter (9)

Portrait de MR.HAWARD2.0

21-11-2021, 00:21

Hi Jimmy!
I kind of remember your name but not much else. Don't take it personally; a friend said it was a nice thing with me that he could say just about anything and I'd forgotten everything about it after a few days. I have a really bad memory. That's why I'm such a happy person :-)
I did some modifications to my old sv738 (again); Adafruit has a nice little mono amplifier so I built in a speaker, and I also bought a 15kHz to VGA converter board (that cheap Chinese version available at Amazon). It worked quite well to be able to hook it up and play some retro games. The demo disk actually worked.
I don't know how to upload the disk to msx.org, but I can put it on a file area I have access to.

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