Deva website launched

Paragon (1182)

29-12-2010, 01:44

Looking forward to see what a bunch of highly skilled people can cook up!

Site looks nice and makes you even more curious.

There are a few small layout glitches though (FF3.6.13, Linux). Most are due to extra BR's inserted in the text which break just into the second line, causing the text to run out of space.

Par Vampier

Prophet (2405)

29-12-2010, 03:32

still hoping for a Metroid like game

Par RobertVroemisse

Paragon (1322)

29-12-2010, 08:32

Sorry, I only tested the site on Windows and Mac. And it was my first (okay, second) attempt to create a site. I am absolutely not skilled when it comes to html and such.

Par mesiasmsx

Prophet (3438)

29-12-2010, 10:02

!Great! I hope the game it´s finish for 2011

Par Huey

Prophet (2694)

29-12-2010, 10:33

To fully appreciate the current graphics, you'll have to keep in mind that the game area uses tile mode. The upside of using tile mode is that it enables fast screen updates, the downside is a limit of two colors per eight pixels. So, to put the quality of these tile mode graphics in perspective,

So. This game will look awful?

I see nothing wrong with the graphics. Perhaps it could be a little less 'smooth' and a bit more 'grainy'. But that is probably my personal taste.
There isn't much shading of the platforms in the background. Which is probably only noticeable on screen shots as the front and back are moving independent.

Good luck!

Par wolf_

Ambassador_ (10076)

29-12-2010, 10:51

No, the game looks good, considering the tile mode limits ..

Par MsxKun

Paragon (1112)

29-12-2010, 13:37

/me drools

Par JohnHassink

Ambassador (5645)

29-12-2010, 14:39

Don't forget, there's a (bit outdated, with dummy music & graphics) demonstration vid on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv8nGeeEVm0

Par poke-1,170

Paragon (1782)

29-12-2010, 16:40

this looks very stylish indeed !

Par Latok

msx guru (3908)

29-12-2010, 20:58

For more information, you can also have a look at this first Deva preview newspost

Par Huey

Prophet (2694)

29-12-2010, 22:47

@John: So you let the beast out? You're cured of your alter ego?

Par tcruise

Master (133)

30-12-2010, 00:22

Graphics and game layout looking very good. Like the website too. Keep up the good work! Layout reminds me of Flashback.

Par sd_snatcher

Prophet (3608)

30-12-2010, 04:18

Great and impressive work, norakomi!

A small tip: On a MSX2+, use the hardware-scroll to smoothscroll the backward layer of the background (the more distant plane). This will result in a illusion for the player that both background layers are moving much smoother. Try it, but don't forget my credit for the idea!

I got this idea when I was making the Gradius-2 smoothscroll.

Par viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

30-12-2010, 11:44

Good job, dudes, keep working on this one! looking really promising!! btw, it seems Deva won't be the unique "angelic" warrior in the MSX scene , time will tell! (sooner than you might expect!)

Par ro

Scribe (4867)

30-12-2010, 12:08

aha, I'm thinking MSXdev'10... right?

Par W76NearDark

Paladin (684)

30-12-2010, 12:10

Seems to me the engine of this game would be very suitable to make a nice Prince of Persia game Great project!

Par norakomi

Paragon (1134)

30-12-2010, 15:46

A small tip: On a MSX2+, use the hardware-scroll to smoothscroll the backward layer of the background (the more distant plane). This will result in a illusion for the player that both background layers are moving much smoother. Try it, but don't forget my credit for the idea!

@sd_snatcher:
how does this in a parallax sc4 scroll ?
if you scroll the background with the hardware scroll the foreground also moves...
can you explain a bit more more what you mean ? maybe i misunderstood..

Par Hrothgar

Champion (479)

30-12-2010, 17:25

No individual layers can be scrolled so using horizontal smoothscroll means you'll have to redefine all differently-scrolling tiles realtime. And it seems this can only work if not only individual tiles have at most 2 colours per line, but also two adjacent tiles abide by this rule. And I have no idea why this recommends MSX2+ though, on MSX2 the hardware scroll capabilities also allow this (save the border masking).

What's also possible (I guess) is making vertical scrolling more smooth than shown in the Youtube demo. This doesn't necessarily have to go in 8px steps; see Pippols for a basic example. But maybe that's reaching computational or storage limits, this game obviously is quite a bit more advanced...

Speaking of MSX2 masterworks: is Manbow2 still being distributed? I've looked for the website that I thought was the distributor, but 1) there's hardly anything there and 2) things looked quite dead and out-of-order.

Par hap

Paragon (2042)

30-12-2010, 18:04

Hrothgar, regarding ordering Manbow 2 cartridge, send an email to Sunrise. Address is here (need to be logged in on MRC to see):
http://www.msx.org/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=sunrise

Par Hrothgar

Champion (479)

30-12-2010, 19:11

Thanks Hap!

Par viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

30-12-2010, 21:05

@norakomi: for parallax scrolling using a tile based mode, please check Invasion of the Zombie Monsters; you'll find a 3-layer 8px+4px+2px scroll. It is SC2, but still 100% applicable on SC4 mode too. If you don't know it yet, you can get it at http://iotzm.relevovideogames.com

Par norakomi

Paragon (1134)

30-12-2010, 21:26

@norakomi: for parallax scrolling using a tile based mode, please check Invasion of the Zombie Monsters; you'll find a 3-layer 8px+4px+2px scroll. It is SC2, but still 100% applicable on SC4 mode too. If you don't know it yet, you can get it at http://iotzm.relevovideogames.com

Ah ok,
i understand how the 8px, 4px and 2px scroll works, but it wont really be an option for deva,
it only works if the background grapx are very simplistic, like in the example (zombie monsters).
using only 2 colors per horizontal line of each tile AND the consecutive tile... and that's simply not going to work in the deva grapx.

Par Edwin

Paragon (1182)

30-12-2010, 23:00

I'd have to agree with Norakomi. Using scroll registers in pattern mode require serious sacrifices on the graphics side or giving up the parallax. Not a particularly good deal for a fast paced game like this.

Par Hrothgar

Champion (479)

30-12-2010, 23:19

And smoother vertical scrolling without scrolling registers. Is there still room for that?

Par Huey

Prophet (2694)

30-12-2010, 23:24

Ah, The ever ongoing "why don't you implement smooth scrolling" question when someone shows his project

Par Hrothgar

Champion (479)

30-12-2010, 23:31

Face it Huey: Manbow2 has set some expectations

Par Huey

Prophet (2694)

30-12-2010, 23:47

Well. My issue is that people seem to care more for scrolling than game play.
It's becoming a standard remark on any project these days.

Par Hrothgar

Champion (479)

31-12-2010, 00:11

For this particular example I do have some worries regarding gameplay:
Isn't it very limiting to have to use 4 sprites on a row for only the main character? It seems to me you really have to be conservative with the number of enemies then. 16px width is a bit low to make a decently running sprite, but there is a reason the hero in Contra runs like he has to pee all the time. I wonder how Deva is solving that issue.

Par Samor

Prophet (2165)

31-12-2010, 00:28

looking good; kind of reminds me of the parallax games...

Par norakomi

Paragon (1134)

31-12-2010, 00:51

By Hrothgar on December 30 2010, 23:19
And smoother vertical scrolling without scrolling registers. Is there still room for that?

sure, but why add smoother vertical scrolling and NOT add the same thing horizontally ?
next to that you will have less tiles available for those smoother scrolling background tiles,
and we are already struggling alot with the 256 tiles we have in sc4.

By Hrothgar on December 31 2010, 00:11
For this particular example I do have some worries regarding gameplay:
Isn't it very limiting to have to use 4 sprites on a row for only the main character? It seems to me you really have to be conservative with the number of enemies then. 16px width is a bit low to make a decently running sprite, but there is a reason the hero in Contra runs like he has to pee all the time. I wonder how Deva is solving that issue.

Yeah, in a lot of cases this means you can have only ONE enemy (if it also uses 4 sprites on a row) on the same vertical position as the main character...
Sure this is very limiting.
In other cases this means we can have only ONE enemy in screen.
the main charter uses 12 sprites, which leaves only 20 sprites for monsters....
There are enemies which use all these 20 sprites (32x80 pixels)

On the other hand, the main sprite IS very big, and the scroll IS very fast, so it would be a bit crazy having 5 enemies at the same time in screen...
think big ^__^

Par wolf_

Ambassador_ (10076)

31-12-2010, 01:09

I would say: the faster the movement, the less smooth scrolling is required. Even if you would scroll smoothly, if your scroll steps turn out to be 6..7..8 pixels per movement, then screw it, and use multilayers and blockscrolls ^^

Par viejo_archivero

Paragon (1395)

31-12-2010, 09:25

@Huey: don't get me wrong, just pointing to an example of multilayers, but not requesting it for Deva ;-). I am agree with you on people asking for smooth scrolling, but if you make something smooth scrolling I am sure people will ask you for block scrolling for the next one... (experience talking here) ;-). My advice is to do what you want, not what others: is the only way to get the fun out of it imho ;-)

Par PingPong

Prophet (4088)

31-12-2010, 12:08

@norakomi:
there are games where the apparent width of sprite is larger than, for example, 16 pixels.
this is achieved by using a set of 16 pixels sprites stacked but with X coordinate 'shifted' a bit.
another situation is when one need a 24px wide sprite, getting also, for a limited area, the or-multicolor trick.
in this situation, theoretically you need 4 sprites to have a 24 pixel area and 3 colors/line. However with some smart tricks one could limit the overlapping X area by placing sprites at different X coordinates, using only two sprites and getting 24px wide area.
Of course this way the area where you can do the "Or-Trick" is limited to 8 pixels only

Have you checked if this is applicable to the main charater?

Par GhostwriterP

Paladin (682)

31-12-2010, 12:44

Wow, this looks very interesting! Especially looking forward to the moonsound rearrangements by _wolf, though I wonder how all those 640kb large wavekits per song gonna fit in the rom.

To everyone involved thumbs up!

Par norakomi

Paragon (1134)

31-12-2010, 13:19

sure its possible to make enemies that are wider than 32 pixels:
i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/bartfuture/enemy2.png

and your option of not having multicolor at the 8 pixel edges is also viable.
for the main character however we simply use 4 sprites per horizontal line, cuz
we need em ^__^
she has so many positions, and especially when she uses certain magic skills,
or when she runs, she really needs the 4 sprites per horizontal line...

@GhostwriterP
Wow, this looks very interesting! Especially looking forward to the moonsound rearrangements by _wolf, though I wonder how all those 640kb large wavekits per song gonna fit in the rom

the final rom might be 4mb

Par Huey

Prophet (2694)

31-12-2010, 14:05

@Huey: don't get me wrong, just pointing to an example of multilayers, but not requesting it for Deva ;-). I am agree with you on people asking for smooth scrolling, but if you make something smooth scrolling I am sure people will ask you for block scrolling for the next one... (experience talking here) ;-). My advice is to do what you want, not what others: is the only way to get the fun out of it imho ;-)

I'm not getting you wrong. It was just a little frustration I let out. Every time people reveal their work. People tend to react this way. It's always possible to implement those ideas/wishes. But they never add anything to the gameplay.

Anyway I agree with your reaction above. The creator decides

Par ARTRAG

Enlighted (6914)

31-12-2010, 17:38

do you use the 8 tilesets you can keep in vram at the same time?
the can be used for animated backgrounds if not for fine scrolling

Par norakomi

Paragon (1134)

31-12-2010, 17:52

at the moment i animate background by updating the animated tiles.
if in the end this turns out to slow then i will use tileset swapping. ty

Par ARTRAG

Enlighted (6914)

01-01-2011, 15:10

well you save also room in the tilesets

Par Lord_Zett

Paladin (807)

03-01-2011, 14:49

Laten we lekker rustig wachten en zien wat voorn resultaat het brengt

Par [D-Tail]

Ascended (8261)

07-01-2011, 07:50

Looking really good; graphics somehow remind me of those good old days of Akin and Coredump. If the music's also gonna be that way I'd be totally happy

Good luck, Deva team!

Par Huey

Prophet (2694)

01-04-2011, 18:33

so... How is the the project going? Just curious

Par Oscar

Guardian (583)

17-06-2014, 01:15

I hope this project is still in development... it is cool!

Par TheSpecialist

Expert (113)

17-06-2014, 12:22

It's been dead for a while now. No idea if it will ever be revived. The project lacks focus and direction.

The website is currently blocked in many browsers as a reported trojan "attack site".

Par Daemos

Paragon (2027)

18-06-2014, 13:31

Don't worry about DEVA. It is going to be finished. The project is waiting for a few things to be finished, then it will receive all the attention it needs.

Par Grauw

Ascended (10683)

18-06-2014, 13:38

Daemos wrote:

Don't worry about DEVA. It is going to be finished. The project is waiting for a few things to be finished, then it will receive all the attention it needs.

Hurray!

Par valkyre

Hero (632)

18-06-2014, 13:56

Pleased to hear.

Par TheSpecialist

Expert (113)

18-06-2014, 14:12

Good to hear! Does that mean you will be assisting in finishing it, Daemos?

Par anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

18-06-2014, 14:22

Just a few minor things left to finish such as
* game design
* story
* maps
* coding
* graphics
* music
* sound effects
but apart from that, it's almost completed.

Par Daemos

Paragon (2027)

17-09-2020, 22:04

Quote:

Good to hear! Does that mean you will be assisting in finishing it, Daemos?

Well maybe I was a little bit too overenthusiastic with my previous post. Lets say that I have let the team know that after I am done with the current huge project I am more than willing to focus my fullest attention and effort into DEVA. In that huge list of things to do I can at least contribute to game design, story, maps, coding, music and sound effects. Offcourse in the end all members need to agree on my participation.

So uhm sorry for making you a little bit too happy by giving a wrong impression. At least what is confirmed is that I am more than willing to assist.

Par anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

17-09-2020, 22:04

@ Daemos: That clarifies it. Thanks for clearing it up. Your enthusiasm is great and to be cherished.
A little birdie told me that norakomi (who is very busy right now) may be looking at this project in a year again. Until that time, there's still a lot of work to do.
In the mean time, as far as I'm concerned: very much welcome to the team! (and I don't think I'm going out on a limb when suspecting that everyone else fully agrees)

Par Grauw

Ascended (10683)

18-06-2014, 16:23

Hehe . Well, I think it’s nice! Good news.

Par syn

Prophet (2113)