Another NEWB

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By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

04-05-2004, 22:53

OK heres the deal. I want to know how to get any of the MSX consoles or whatever so i can play Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. Is this possibel to get the console anywhere. I just need a way to play the first two and if there is anyway possible. please reply. thank you.

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By Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Sonic_aka_T's picture

04-05-2004, 23:16

Depends on where you live... If you're from the States it's a little bit more difficult, but you should still be able to get your hands on an MSX2 for around $100 including shipping & handling. Be sure to coordinate with customs and the seller though, so you don't end up paying import duties... Most of the time it will be possible to get some form of exemption on this kind of (non commercial) equipment. Check ebay.nl for cheap MSX2 computers. You should be able to find an MSX2 for around 30 euros ($40). Good luck

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8249)

[D-Tail]'s picture

04-05-2004, 23:35

MSX consoles
One thing, just for keeping things straight: MSX IS NO CONSOLE!!! Wink

Another NEWB
When pronounced, it sounds like 'n00b'? \o/

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

04-05-2004, 23:38

If you just want to play those two games, use an emulator.

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8249)

[D-Tail]'s picture

04-05-2004, 23:42

If you just want to play those two games, use an emulator.
He, that was just a thing I didn't mention on purpose... Although it fits him best of course Wink
Isn't our aim to get as much people as possible addicted to MSX? Tongue

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5984)

mars2000you's picture

05-05-2004, 00:24

You can discover the wonderful MSX world by different ways : the real machine for the complete MSX feeling, a good emulator for extra features like screenshots, save states, saving of the music, ....
In fact, both are necessary if you are very addicted to MSX !

By Haohmaru

Paladin (773)

Haohmaru's picture

05-05-2004, 01:35

I feel the need to display my humble opinion on this...

The best way to get to know the MSX system is getting your hands on the true hardware. Why? Because emulation is NOT perfect. There are some nice emulators around, but they can never replace the real thing.

I use blueMSX on my notebook to check out free MSX software I downloaded before I stash them on a disk and run over to my real MSX. I also play pirated MSX software on my Dreamcast. Because I think it's fun. But as I stated: emulation is not perfect. I want to run MSX software on a real MSX, because that's what that machine is for. It's nice to see classic (and crappy sometimes, yes) games being enjoyed by a new generation of computer addicts, but they're missing all the fun and comfort of the real hardware.

The problem with emulation is that it promotes piracy. Don't think that people who steal... er... emulate will buy a new community release. Ever. Why should they? The have a massive harddrive crammed with illegal software already, so why should they suddenly start paying for the latest game?

Sure enough, if you're only interested in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 on MSX and don't want to bother yourself with any other software/hardware that's been released for the system in the past 20 years, go ahead and use an MSX emulator.

You'll be missing a lot of fun, though.

BodyHammeR

By RobertVroemisse

Paragon (1300)

RobertVroemisse's picture

05-05-2004, 14:44

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HALLELUYA BROTHER BODYHAMMER. NICE SPOKEN

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5984)

mars2000you's picture

05-05-2004, 17:28

The best way to get to know the MSX system is getting your hands on the true hardware. Why? Because emulation is NOT perfect. There are some nice emulators around, but they can never replace the real thing.

We know all that emulators aren't perfect, but you must also take in account 3 things :

- since the first version of fMSX, a big amount of improvements, new approachs, new options has made possible that you can now really use better emulators (blueMSX, NLMSX and openMSX) that with each new release, are still better

- an emulator can give you some features that doesn't exist on the real machines : screenshots, save states, saving of the music, debugger, VRAM viewer, sound channels viewer, ... (some of these features doesn't exist for the moment, but maybe in the future ...)

- an emulator can make some things more fast and handful : no more waste of time (and risk of errors !) to run tapes with the cas files, less waste of time (and risk of errors !) with the dsk files, no risk that an emulator becomes useless if you insert a rom image in a slot when the emulator is running ....

The problem with emulation is that it promotes piracy. Don't think that people who steal... er... emulate will buy a new community release. Ever. Why should they? The have a massive harddrive crammed with illegal software already, so why should they suddenly start paying for the latest game?

It's only partially true. An emulator incites also people to buy the real machines and games. Just take a look at eBay and you'll have the proof that MSX is interesting a new generation !


Sure enough, if you're only interested in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 on MSX and don't want to bother yourself with any other software/hardware that's been released for the system in the past 20 years, go ahead and use an MSX emulator.

That's a specific case, there are indeed people only interested by these games ... so, there would maybe exist an emulator that could only run these games ???!!!!

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8249)

[D-Tail]'s picture

05-05-2004, 18:31

*Ahem*...


We know all that emulators aren't perfect, but you must also take in account 3 things :

- since the first version of fMSX, a big amount of improvements, new approachs, new options has made possible that you can now really use better emulators (blueMSX, NLMSX and openMSX) that with each new release, are still better

In my humble opinion, emulators don't fit well for MSX games. Alright, even IF you use NLMSX or openMSX (which are suitable for minor cases (like wildBHR said --> just for testing purposes)). But if you really want to play to death on an emulator, you should as well get a TV/MSX monitor set as well... Why? A standard pc monitor (or LCD/TFT)'s images are too sharp to display MSX images in a reasonable way. Of course, you can use those SAI or 2xSAI layers in openMSX, but would that definately do the trick? After all, you'll need quite a pc for doing that... Sad
And remember, we're trying to emulate a 20-odd-years old computer, running on 3.5MHz. It would be a pity to 'misuse' a 3.0GHz computer for that...
You should need a MSX monitor because it makes the images somewhat 'blurry'. Thanks to the chunky performance, MSX games come out best on that Smile.

Saying this, it's only valid when the emulation is *perfect*. Which it isn't. And which it will never be.

Let's take it to a somewhat higher level: a perfect machine can never be emulated perfectly.

- an emulator can give you some features that doesn't exist on the real machines : screenshots, save states, saving of the music, debugger, VRAM viewer, sound channels viewer, ... (some of these features doesn't exist for the moment, but maybe in the future ...)
As if one would want to make screenshots. If I get it right you've never seen the article on 'how to make MSX screenshots' on the MCCM final CD set. It involves quite an operation to restyle MSX screenshots, in order for them to come out nice. And even when you manage to do that, what would you want with it? Put them on a MSX website? That's bluntly 'Targeting beyond goal' if you ask me. MSX users are likely to have seen those screenshots of yours, but then in real life Wink.
You want to print them on your precious ink-jet printer, thus dispensing gallons of even more precious ink? What would you do with those print-outs then? Take them along with you whilst you travel by train? Sniffing their pure odours, getting high of MSX print-out fumes? Wink
But yes of course, it is a lot easier than doing it on a real MSX.


- an emulator can make some things more fast and handful : no more waste of time (and risk of errors !) to run tapes with the cas files, less waste of time (and risk of errors !) with the dsk files, no risk that an emulator becomes useless if you insert a rom image in a slot when the emulator is running ....

Erm... Who is using tapes these days anyway? I mean, we all don't have to have ATA-IDE or MEGASCSI interfaces connected to our dear MSXs, but diskettes aren't too slow or something. Remember the size of a worthy MSX game? Or even better... Remember the standard size of RAM in a MSX2? 128kB! My MSX Turbo R A1ST has a disk transfer rate of 21kB/s. So, that RAM is filled in just 128/21 = 6 seconds! That is something I wouldn't call 'slow'... Of course those cracked games (4Mbit, 8Mbit) will cost one a huge amount of RAM, thus a huge loading time, but that's not for my sake. And if a diskette is still too slow for you, buy an ATA-IDE! Smile

Next point, it's just *STUPID* to insert a cartridge into a MSX when it's up and running. Only a fool would do that.

That's a specific case, there are indeed people only interested by these games ... so, there would maybe exist an emulator that could only run these games ???!!!!
Buy the real thing, that's all I can say.
No.
No emulator would be able to live up to the real thing, if you ask me.

And please don't be so quasi-innocent by saying 'emulator that could only run these games'. Emulators DO stimulate piracy. And frankly, I don't care about it, for as long as it concerns Konami games or so. Everyone knows Konami has stopped thear activities on MSX a long while ago. So I don't care about copying their games. Matters change however, when current games are being copied. Such things make me mad. Games like 'Pumpkin Adventure III', or 'Bombaman' are still available, so those ones shouldn't be copied. Well... I'm going offtopic, I gues... Wink

All good things come to end eventually. So does this monologue Wink Yeah, I'm gonna code on my Underwater Challenge entry right now Wink

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5984)

mars2000you's picture

05-05-2004, 19:44


In my humble opinion, emulators don't fit well for MSX games. Alright, even IF you use NLMSX or openMSX (which are suitable for minor cases (like wildBHR said --> just for testing purposes)). But if you really want to play to death on an emulator, you should as well get a TV/MSX monitor set as well... Why? A standard pc monitor (or LCD/TFT)'s images are too sharp to display MSX images in a reasonable way. Of course, you can use those SAI or 2xSAI layers in openMSX, but would that definately do the trick? After all, you'll need quite a pc for doing that... Sad

Maybe I'm wrong, but I guess that you don't have tested other emulators than openMSX or NLMSX. Do you know that last beta versions of paraMSX and MESS include a stretched mode that displays the graphic part on your PC monitor just like on a real MSX ? Besides, next version of blueMSX will include such a stretched mode.


And remember, we're trying to emulate a 20-odd-years old computer, running on 3.5MHz. It would be a pity to 'misuse' a 3.0GHz computer for that...
You should need a MSX monitor because it makes the images somewhat 'blurry'. Thanks to the chunky performance, MSX games come out best on that Smile.

Personnally, I don't like blurry images, but I can understand your preference. Do you know that blueMSX has a blurry mode ? Do you now that it runs on my Athlon/MK6 (~800 MHz) without any performance problem? I guess that you don't have tried blueMSX !

*Saying this, it's only valid when the emulation is *perfect*. Which it isn't. And which it will never be.

Let's take it to a somewhat higher level: a perfect machine can never be emulated perfectly.

On this point, I agree with you ... but the perception of perfection is somewhat subjective, don't you think ?


As if one would want to make screenshots. If I get it right you've never seen the article on 'how to make MSX screenshots' on the MCCM final CD set. It involves quite an operation to restyle MSX screenshots, in order for them to come out nice. And even when you manage to do that, what would you want with it? Put them on a MSX website? That's bluntly 'Targeting beyond goal' if you ask me. MSX users are likely to have seen those screenshots of yours, but then in real life Wink.

No luck for you, I have the double MCCM final CD and I know this article. I won't answer on the restyling of MSX screenshots, it's a question of perfection, and his perception is subjective ...

If you are not interested by screenshots, that's your choice .... but respect the choices and wishes of other people. A great part of my site contains screenshots with explanations (tips) that guide you to resolve some games (example : Eggerland 1). By the reactions that I've received, I know that it interests many people.


And please don't be so quasi-innocent by saying 'emulator that could only run these games'. Emulators DO stimulate piracy.

It's no quasi-innocence, it was simply a touch of humour, but it seems that you can't understand that !


Matters change however, when current games are being copied. Such things make me mad. Games like 'Pumpkin Adventure III', or 'Bombaman' are still available, so those ones shouldn't be copied.

I agree with you. I have buyed Bombaman and I won't put the dsk images of the game on my site (for example) until it would be declared freeware. Everyone should make the same, and generally it's the case. Until now, I don't have seen Bombaman on a warez site, so where's the problem ?

All good things come to end eventually. So does this monologue Wink Yeah, I'm gonna code on my Underwater Challenge entry right now Wink

A very interesting discussion. Good luck with your demo, I'll run it on my real MSX (NMS 8280 and FS-A1ST) and on blueMSX ! If you have just a little time, try blueMSX !

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