TriloTracker beta thread.

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By syn

Prophet (2053)

syn's picture

11-03-2021, 08:37

BTW Huey any tips on how to load up more than one samples? I tried a few times but tt just seems to glitch once I try to load a second one. Sometimes freezes or error, or yesterday I just can't seem to get out of the sample editor (esc won't respond anymore). I didn't report it because you said it's still in it's early stages.

By syn

Prophet (2053)

syn's picture

11-03-2021, 11:25

How much CPU time does this sample playback functionality take btw, is it practical for use in a game or demo?

ARTRAG wrote:

This is one of Richard's early tests
Test

nice :D

By Huey

Prophet (2673)

Huey's picture

11-03-2021, 13:35

Hi Syn,

Nice test you made!
The sample loading is still buggy. I already fixed some issues and improved the GUI but I try not to release every few days.
Next time release probably needs more functionality and a converter (by ARTRAG).

The sample playback is not that heavy on the CPU. But I think it will be usable in games without any real impact.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6506)

ARTRAG's picture

12-03-2021, 22:01

I think that the additional cpu cost is more or less the cost of coping 32 bytes in the SCC ram per frame
If you play more samples at the same time, you need to copy 32 bytes for each sample

By Bengalack

Champion (390)

Bengalack's picture

13-03-2021, 09:46

As a person that super-far-away from fluent wrt audio, it is a bit hard to use the tool atm. I managed to get some sound playing though after some work though Smile That said, the tool seems really, really good, the possibilities seems huge! Fantastic!

Yes, it is currently in beta, so I'm probably stating the obvious, but enabling "widespread use" (well... in MSX/SMS-terms Smile), quick uptake, innovation and new music production on MSX + SMS, will probably greatly benefit from a set of sample voices/instruments coming out of the package, as well as some beats or sample songs (or just being easily available).

If we get an active community sharing bits and pieces, this tool will enable the "AY/SCC/OPLL-scene" to really thrive.

Can't wait to see where this is going. Very good work so far Smile

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6506)

ARTRAG's picture

13-03-2021, 10:14

There is a HUGE potential in this development. Trilotracker is a fantastic tool for composing music. Revamping the tracker and its players should push its use in new games. Moreover, the capability of playing samples without locking the CPU is unique. Even if the sample encoding works better with some kind of audio (human voice) and worst with others (noisy and unvoiced samples), the player is light, you can play up to 4 samples at time and you can modulate the samples as they were instruments by translating the pitch of tones and octaves.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I expect that with some work on the samples you can make Trilotracker sing with human voice.
And use the same music as BGM in games with minimal requirements of ROM space and CPU load.

By Bengalack

Champion (390)

Bengalack's picture

13-03-2021, 13:04

We just need enough people to try it out, and build experience.

ARTRAG wrote:

...the player is light

In addition, I assume that if you are extremely pushed on available cycles, you can always use the tool to compose fantastic music which wasn't possible before, and then use vgm_rec in openmsx when playing in Trilotracker, and then play back the raw commands in your game (costly wrt to memory-usage, but nothing is faster cpu-wise).

By syn

Prophet (2053)

syn's picture

13-03-2021, 13:26

ARTRAG wrote:

Moreover, the capability of playing samples without locking the CPU is unique. Even if the sample encoding works better with some kind of audio (human voice) and worst with others (noisy and unvoiced samples), the player is light, you can play up to 4 samples at time and you can modulate the samples as they were instruments by translating the pitch of tones and octaves.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I expect that with some work on the samples you can make Trilotracker sing with human voice.
And use the same music as BGM in games with minimal requirements of ROM space and CPU load.

I agree, this is huge news. I dont understand why there isnt more buzz about this since i almost fell off my chair when i saw hueys test video with samples on youtube Big smile Maybe people think its not a big deal since you can just use OPL4 if you want samples in your game or on msx.

As much as I appreciate new soundchips on the msx, Ive said often that we need more/better tools instead of more soundchips. I always felt that we haven't touched the limits of SCC/PSG/OPLL yet on msx.

By GhostwriterP

Hero (595)

GhostwriterP's picture

13-03-2021, 17:13

This sample playback feature is sure something to keep an eye on.
If it works out well, I might have to implement this in my own tracker as well ... but, to be honest, from what I heard sofar I am not that encouraged.
So keep it up and prove me wrong! Wink

By GhostwriterP

Hero (595)

GhostwriterP's picture

14-03-2021, 08:52

Coming to think of it, I am not doing things very much different in realfun 3, only with shorter samples.

I did notice that some waveform changes work out better than others. I got this theory that changes in the "amplitude" goes smoother compared to changed in the "frequency" direction, maybe simply due the fact amplitude has 128 steps and wave form length is only 32 steps. Just running a simple interference of two wave forms can already produce a nasty (squeaking?) sound as byproduct (the pluck in staff roll is already kinda over the edge). For the "stretch", "squeeze" and "modulation" effects it is even more difficult to avoid it.
So perhaps side effect can be mitigated by sort of aligning the new wave forms such that the changes in "frequency" are minimized. I know there is a good change that you guys (ARTRAG, Huey) already knew that, my 2 cents just in case.

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