Space Manbow 2 where?

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By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

02-02-2016, 17:13

Daemos wrote:

Unless. Somebody is clever and rich enough to issue a large batch of new msx computers. That person has to be a multi milionaire...

Batman? LOL!

Ok. I give up.

By Grauw

Ascended (10580)

Grauw's picture

02-02-2016, 19:24

MrSpock wrote:

As you told before (I think it was you), now you are a professional developer. So, there is another difference between your childhood and your present age: now you have tons of knowledge and experience you didn't have before. So, another reason (probably the most important one) for you to finish more projects now than before is... experience and knowledge. Not just emulators.

Despite my experience, developing on an emulator is still faster and easier than on a real MSX. Nothing has changed in that regard. Slower project progression, bugs you get stuck on for weeks, it’s a reason why projects fail. I’m not claiming it’s the only factor but I am saying emulators play a positive part in improving the success of projects.

MrSpock wrote:
zPasi wrote:
MrSpock wrote:

Let's imagine an alternate universe in which, back in the 80's, those powerful cross-development machines had been freely available to everybody... would the MSX exist nowadays?

Sure it would exist. By "freely" you don't mean "without costs"? That would be absurd.

Yes, by "freely" I meant "without having to pay anything for them". Like emulators.

I don’t follow. Free is bad? It’s all about the money? In that case I’m happy to contribute to the downfall of MSX with my free software Smile. Worse, I hope more people will make free software! And release old software to the public domain! Free stuff, woo! (*Imagines some horrified faces*)

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

02-02-2016, 19:39

Grauw wrote:

I don’t follow. Free is bad? It’s all about the money? In that case I’m happy to contribute to the downfall of MSX with my free software Smile. Worse, I hope more people will make free software! And release old software to the public domain! Free stuff, woo! (*Imagines some horrified faces*)

Hmmm... I think even Siri and Cortana analyze more than one word in a sentence before providing an answer.

"Free" is one word I used, but my whole point was another. I definitely give up.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6221)

mars2000you's picture

02-02-2016, 19:47

@MrSpock, just one question :

Are you for or against MSXdev', the most successful MSX1 game contest ?

By Grauw

Ascended (10580)

Grauw's picture

02-02-2016, 19:57

Maybe state it in a more clear way Smile. I don’t see what an imaginary unlikely history, back when MSX was in heavy competition with other systems, has to do with emulators today. Also, hardware prices are ever on the rise (unfortunately), so the hardware is clearly in demand still. Development is easier than ever thanks to cross assemblers and emulators.

When my interest in MSX reinvigorated a few years ago I was surprised at the amount of people still around, many new faces too. I had expected the opposite. We have the community to thank for that, many of which use emulators for both development and play, for various reasons. Without emulators we would sure be worse off, with less people using MSX and less people developing for MSX.

But either way, the world is as it is and I don’t really see a point in getting upset about it, you can’t change it and a history without emulators is purely imaginary, it could never have occurred. Counting users of real MSX computers is nice and all, but it serves no purpose except to maybe make you feel better about yourself. Everybody enjoys MSX in their own way.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

02-02-2016, 20:22

@Grauw: Sorry if I seemed rude. It was not my intention. My point of view is quite clear in previous messages.

@mars2000you: that question is a textbook example of the "either-or fallacy". I can only assume that you ask it because of the infamous "free" word I used and, as I said, that would be another different debate that I don't want to start now. Also, I will not provide a "for" or "against" answer because is not that simple.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (6221)

mars2000you's picture

02-02-2016, 20:33

@MrSpock: typically the attitude of someone who tries to escape his own contradictions, by avoiding to answer me clearly.

Exactly the same with other people when I give the list of all digital MSX products I've bought or when I explain that deciding to skip step 2 (sell digital games) between step 1 (sell games only in physical format) and step 3 (offer for free digital games) does not give the right to the coder to say that people who are not interested by step 1 just want the games for free.

Anyway, the test is clear for me: I know exactly on which side you are.

By zPasi

Champion (499)

zPasi's picture

02-02-2016, 20:40

MrSpock wrote:

No. That's a fallacy. Emulators have side-effects. They are not only used to help development.

So?

MrSpock wrote:

Yes, by "freely" I meant "without having to pay anything for them". Like emulators.

If powerful workstations had just given free to everyone, of course there wouldn't have been any MSX. Who would have wanted MSX then? But that's totally absurd fantasy, and has nothing to do with the reality with emulators.

Daemos wrote:

Unless. Somebody is clever and rich enough to issue a large batch of new msx computers. That person has to be a multi milionaire to get all the IC's redeveloped and produced.

Or somebody clever enough to do that with FPGAs. They are NOT emulation, they are real circuits, even when they are defined in code.

Grauw wrote:

When my interest in MSX reinvigorated a few years ago I was surprised at the amount of people still around, many new faces too. I had expected the opposite. We have the community to thank for that, many of which use emulators for both development and play, for various reasons. Without emulators we would sure be worse off, with less people using MSX and less people developing for MSX.

Exactly.

Some years ago I thought emulators were enough for me. Then, for some reason I started to improve a game that I had written in the 80's. That made me purchasing some real hardware, for testing. And here I am with three MSXs and one ZX Spectrum... Tongue

That game project is still unfinished, but without emulators it wouldn't even have a change.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

02-02-2016, 20:52

mars2000you wrote:

Anyway, the test is clear for me: I know exactly on which side you are.

Text books explain that term "either-or fallacy" is due to the "either your side or mine" sentence... wink wink

Anyway, good to know there are sides here. Mine is the Dark one.

By Grauw

Ascended (10580)

Grauw's picture

02-02-2016, 20:55

Smile

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