Sales Discontinued

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By msd

Paragon (1508)

msd's picture

04-10-2022, 11:18

@sjaaq. I might have a possible softlock. but I'm not sure. I got the keys from the bird and used them . Returning to the bird it still has keys. Intended this way?

By SjaaQ

Champion (365)

SjaaQ's picture

04-10-2022, 11:53

You found another issue. I am pretty sure it is not a softlock though. Just give the keys to the person (not in the scene with the bird) which probably can do something with it.

Edit: Reading again; If I understand correctly you already give it to him. I never went back to the bird so it probably just displays the first dialog. I'll change that.

You need to venture in to the jungle again. Hope you got some paper now?

By msd

Paragon (1508)

msd's picture

04-10-2022, 12:26

Yes I got the paper . Although I didn’t see any hint where to you use it.

By SjaaQ

Champion (365)

SjaaQ's picture

04-10-2022, 13:21

Well this is the 2nd place I think a direct hint may be helpfull. That paper is only really useful in the most confusing place on the island. I mean you probably needed to draw one anyways?

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5970)

NYYRIKKI's picture

04-10-2022, 17:52

SjaaQ wrote:
NYYRIKKI wrote:

...it does not feel fair if script writer sends player intentionally to wrong direction when he tries the correct action.

Sounds like you should have playtested it. I could have changed the ball reference to a rock, when you have it. I still can. So if you have any suggestions on what to change, send me an email.

I need to spend more time with the game to understand what caused me to fail this miserably... but indeed I may send some suggestions later, if you are interested to keep improving. I'm not quite on that level of understanding yet.

Quote:
NYYRIKKI wrote:

...If you are on kitchen in front of the window and you walk down so that you hit the ladders, you still can't reach them.

I have to check every time this happens and plot a path (make the character walk a certain route programmatically). We have tried implementing pathfinding but it was way too difficult (-> slow on z80) to implement. So whenever the character says "Can't reach it" you need to "help" him.

If it is a walk to an object (like the dumpster), that can be fixed by programming the route.

No, I meant that to my eyes the guy is standing right where he is supposed to stand (Leaning to a staircase or dumpster) it is just that his hands must be in pockets as he can't reach an object where he is currently hitting his nose (= the object he can't reach is preventing him to move any closer.)

About pathfinding... I don't think that this kind of game needs any real pathfinding (like A*) as the scenes are not really Pacman levels and there is no need for optimal results. Now it seems that you take just player position (X1.Y1) and mouse click position (X2,Y2) and walk in steps (XS,YS) towards X2,Y2 until you hit an object and then stop. This is maybe a little too ascetic approach as it really feels the objects block your movement. (How ever I can't say that this would have really bothered me.)

I think it would be enough that when you hit a (wrong) object ie. on X-axis, you continue to walk to 0,SNG(YS)-(YS=0) direction until you either hit an object also in Y-axis (then you can stop) or you can take again step to XS,YS again. If you can take this step again, do it and then start over by calculating XS and YS from current X1,Y1 using old X2,Y2.

This kind of very simple approach should get you around simple block objects just fine and even if it doesn't the player likely starts to guide the walk by reflex if he feels the guy runs to wrong direction. Naturally it is not quite as simple as I make it sound as you really need to check that player has clicked spot where you can walk, otherwise the player may ie. keep running around the click point. TBH I don't think the movements were any better than this ie. in Larry 3.

Even if you would do something smart like start to check what is the best way around the object/shape when you hit it (ie. by following the edges to right and left while measuring distance to X2,Y2), I think it would be just fine as it would feel just natural that the character stops to think for a while before he picks up a new direction.

By Samor

Prophet (2162)

Samor's picture

04-10-2022, 18:24

santiontanon wrote:

Hehe, this is a thin line to walk: if all the actions make sense in a point and click game, then probably the game will become too easy. So, most of these games have very obscure and absurd action you need to take. For example, recall that in The Day of the Tentacle, at some point you need electricity, and what you have to do is to "wash the car" (as "everyone knows" that it always rains after washing your car), and then collect electricity from a lightning haha Wink

I recall playing through Indiana Jones and the fate of Atlantis and it really had some moments where I thought "how was I supposed to know that?!" ..maybe it's just a part of adventure games.

By SjaaQ

Champion (365)

SjaaQ's picture

04-10-2022, 18:30

NYYRIKKI wrote:

...walking routing explained...

I don't really think revisiting the walking functions (f_egoMove) are worth the effort. Believe me as I say we have invested considerate amount of time in it. There only a few places where this is really an "annoyance" (it is not soft locking the game or something). And for these places, I could workaround it with scripting the movement. Feel free to ask for a copy of this code via mail.

Also, the f_egoMove is pretty complex because it needs to check multiple points (not one) and due to the sprite scaling, the speed of movement can change any step of the movement. Thus the number of steps to take can change every step. And because the end position may not be exactly matching the speed*step size, you might never arrive at your destination. If that happens, the script will not continue. I want the "walkto X Y" command to be exact, not "close enough".

By SjaaQ

Champion (365)

SjaaQ's picture

04-10-2022, 18:45

msd wrote:

@sjaaq: I got an Error: timer out of handlers. I got it by the sales man on the island . Fast Multiple times bothering him led to this. I have another question about this scene , but I don’t want to give spoilers .

Would it be possible to create a video for this? I've tried reproducing the error but wasn't able to.

By SjaaQ

Champion (365)

SjaaQ's picture

04-10-2022, 19:03

msd wrote:

@sjaaq. I might have a possible softlock. but I'm not sure. I got the keys from the bird and used them . Returning to the bird it still has keys. Intended this way?

I also have no idea how you got this situation. When I get and use the keys, go back to the bird, I never get an indication it still has them. The salesperson may say so, but what does he know?

I even tried to get another fish... But that does not work either.

BTW: Just send the video(s) to my email. That way it does not spoiler it for anyone else.

By msd

Paragon (1508)

msd's picture

04-10-2022, 19:00

I just overwritten the save game of that position

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