Best demos

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By Accumulator

Expert (116)

Accumulator's picture

26-11-2022, 18:52

The capabilities of MSX1 are quite exploited, look at Riyad from Bandwagon, and other demos. In my opinion there is still lot to discover for MSX2 and up. Plenty of registers to play with, and for sure we will stumble on some undocumented features / bugs , it is how you see it. We can achieve a lot with V9938 and V9958, more than we currently know, I'm sure. Like image zooming in screen 0, image is created by combining font characters and font changing ( I'm testing this)
Capabilities for screen 10+, and better PSG chiptunes. We can think of so many thing to try,
But do we see part of demos back in games?? Isn't that the goal, show what is possible and use for game.
I have been working on sound and disk usage, and I think it is almost possible, if some disk routines are rewritten, and interiupt is not stalled too long, ..

By badsector

Rookie (27)

badsector's picture

26-11-2022, 19:59

@Accumulator that's the spirit!

Accumulator wrote:

The capabilities of MSX1 are quite exploited, look at Riyad from Bandwagon, and other demos. In my opinion there is still lot to discover for MSX2 and up.

But even for MSX1 there might be a lot more to achieve. Like I tried to explain it's not only the specs and exploits of the machine. A magician does things that appear to be impossible not by using a power nobody knew existed, but by doing something in a way nobody thought of before. If you hide this well enough people will be amazed and wonder how you did it.

Accumulator wrote:

Like image zooming in screen 0, image is created by combining font characters and font changing ( I'm testing this)
....
I have been working on sound and disk usage, and I think it is almost possible, if some disk routines are rewritten, and interiupt is not stalled too long, ..

Sounds great! I've done some similar research and was hoping to include things like that in a future production. So I could maybe use your help in the future. I like to think I know the MSX hardware very well (trying not to brag), maybe I could help you with something too.
E-mail me if you'd like to exchange some ideas sometime or even team up for a project or so.

By santiontanon

Paragon (1734)

santiontanon's picture

26-11-2022, 22:15

I honestly think that there are still amazing things that can be done with a barebones MSX1 machine that we could conceive of. So, nothing against MSX2 and above, but I hope there is people that would be willing to keep trying to still push for more and more impressive MSX1 demos Smile

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6914)

ARTRAG's picture

27-11-2022, 09:56

Should you do a demo consider including this technology
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JWkUhC7vnHw

By ro

Scribe (4865)

ro's picture

27-11-2022, 14:36

wolf_ wrote:

Show me the MSX version of C64 Second Reality, then we'll talk.

okay, let's talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUyIz_0luw

By RvS

Expert (92)

RvS's picture

27-11-2022, 14:49

It is not the same thing. It is playing a large video file.
It is not a remake that would run on a standard MSX1 or 2.

By Sandy Brand

Champion (295)

Sandy Brand's picture

27-11-2022, 14:53

That's a bit disingenuous to be honest.

Is it impressive? Sure! But, it relies on a lot of additional modern hardware that was absolutely unavailable at the time that these machines were on the market, and you should consider this 'outside of the specs' of the original machines.
If you would allow for this, then where would it stop. If I somehow find a way to plug the latest and greatest graphics card into an MSX machine and then claim we can do real-time ray-tracing at 4K on MSX?

So, no, this absolutely not equivalent to running the Second Reality demo on an MSX machine.

Another counter example is this one: Playing Doom on the ZX Spectrum Next at 7MHZ accelerated mode
As impressive as it is, no-one would say that this is proof that you can properly run Doom on a ZX Spectrum.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10076)

wolf_'s picture

27-11-2022, 15:10

Besides, this idea was already established with Nyyrikki's Dragon's Lair vid. With the same logic you can run Indiana Jones and yell it's an MSX demo. Wink

By Accumulator

Expert (116)

Accumulator's picture

27-11-2022, 22:35

I can remember also some starwars video, played in combination with cd or dvd. That's the problem nowadays, technology, what is the max. baseline? The more memory video or ram, separate, independent processor for audio / graphics (gpu) and drive, the more graphics you can compress and decompress, place into memory, with sprite splits and line interrupts and higher the id of videochip , layers etc you can amaze more and more people.
What is the base line for demos for MSX, MSX2, MSX2+, and TR? VDP, DOS version, expansions? What about running in emulator? MSX1 with V9958 ? Or even MSX2 with V9958, I could not emulate this.
Have to test on my Sony HB700 with switches 7mhz and 2+.

By gdx

Enlighted (5999)

gdx's picture

28-11-2022, 09:07

RvS wrote:

It is not the same thing. It is playing a large video file.
It is not a remake that would run on a standard MSX1 or 2.

I think Commodore demos contains also some little video sequences. The difference is that they are loaded and then played.

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