Possible Gng remake for msx ?

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By PingPong

Prophet (3833)

PingPong's picture

09-06-2007, 08:58

@Manul:VScreen has the major problem that is using two sprites on the right/left to hide the borders during scrolling. In a game like gng we do not want do waste two hw sprites/scanline...

Anyone know if it's possible to disable the vertical sprites used to mask the borders?

Plus gfx in sc4 are less good...

By dvik

Prophet (2200)

dvik's picture

09-06-2007, 09:09

sc4 could be really good for gfx but it has its limitations. Someone did very nice tile graphics for gng in screen 2. I think screen 4 would work quite well for gng. And as you said PingPong, it would be nice to disable the mask sprites. These sprites are more important to do enemies. Space Manbow looks quite good without masked borders. A bit flickery but not too disturbing.

By PingPong

Prophet (3833)

PingPong's picture

09-06-2007, 13:06

sc4 could be really good for gfx but it has its limitations. Someone did very nice tile graphics for gng in screen 2.
OK, what i mean is: for an msx2 the level of graphics in sc4 is not so brilliant. Sure, for msx1 is a extremely good work!

Using a msx1 / sc2 is the BEST you can achieve about gfx from the vdp.
But using v9938 a better mode is sc5. IMHO

MSX1:SC2 = MSX2:SC8

By SLotman

Paragon (1238)

SLotman's picture

09-06-2007, 14:13


OK, what i mean is: for an msx2 the level of graphics in sc4 is not so brilliant. Sure, for msx1 is a extremely good work!

Well, for me Space Manbow is *THE* most beautiful game MSX has, even today. It looks like an SNES game, done in a 8bit environment. And it's pure SC4.

I know sc2/sc4 has great limitations, but it can look very good if someone really talented takes the challenge Wink

I always wonder what Konami would come up with, if they made a turbo-R game back then...

By PingPong

Prophet (3833)

PingPong's picture

09-06-2007, 14:15

Of course using sc4 on msx2 allow the use of vertical scroll register, and horizontal scroll adj + palette that can remove the 8x1@1color tile limit needed if you want smooth scroll.
this can improve the overall gfx result...

By Maggoo

Paragon (1214)

Maggoo's picture

09-06-2007, 17:16

@Manul:VScreen has the major problem that is using two sprites on the right/left to hide the borders during scrolling. In a game like gng we do not want do waste two hw sprites/scanline...

Anyone know if it's possible to disable the vertical sprites used to mask the borders?

Plus gfx in sc4 are less good...

Yes, you can disable this mask on the borders, just one call to remove in the provided source code.

sc4 CAN be good but required more work and tricks than sc5 for instance but it can be done. Look at Psycho World or Space Manbow....

However for a game like GNG or Green Beret on MSX2, I would probably use Screen 5. You don't need a very fast scrolling for those games and a smooth horizontal sc5 scrolling is rather easy to achieve (with some border flickering)

By PingPong

Prophet (3833)

PingPong's picture

09-06-2007, 17:43


However for a game like GNG or Green Beret on MSX2, I would probably use Screen 5. You don't need a very fast scrolling for those games and a smooth horizontal sc5 scrolling is rather easy to achieve (with some border flickering)

Infos:

The routine i've prototyped combine two tecniques on sc5:
a- do not re-plot unchanged tiles between frames
b- work on 16 pixels basis (huge border flickering) on a hidden page.

on a area of 240x160 pixels works roungly at >60 pixels / second assuming
almost all z80 time,
60hz vdp frame rate
all tiles changing at each frame.

in real scenario i need only a 30 fps frame rate a 128 or little more of screen area height and i have about 30% of tiles that remain unchanged between frames.

using the same patterns and map of dvik's level1 of gng there are pitchs of 400pixels/sec (!) because of the uniform and blank areas on the level1 of GNG.

however i have problems with vertical scroll because i need some prebuffering to anticipate a possible vertical movement in up/down.

By PingPong

Prophet (3833)

PingPong's picture

16-06-2007, 15:16

OT: I've also found a commodore 16 (only 16k version of GNG, made entirely with sw (tiled) sprites. (with the c16 no HW sprites) look, considering the machine, good.

By hal2019

Supporter (13)

hal2019's picture

21-03-2020, 00:27

I lost the gngdemo4... Anyone save it?

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