A real MSX revival?

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By QuinnTheEskimo

Resident (41)

QuinnTheEskimo's picture

12-09-2007, 05:01

Then the MSX Association need to develop a modern computer with a 32 bit or a 64 bit processor which includes hardware emulation of all the earlier MSX versions.

Something like what Amiga Inc. is working on. Hopefully this Amiga will be more than vapourware. They're also planning a $500 version of the new amiga which will look more like the original amiga.

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By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8233)

[D-Tail]'s picture

12-09-2007, 06:56

Well, I don't really think an MSX revival is getting the old hardware up to pace with all sorts of modern stuff. In fact, I don't believe that architectures like the x86 will leave sometime soon, just because another, comparable architecture is brought to the market. I kind of think that the new machines should still have a 'retro feeling', if you know what I mean. Modern gaming, software design, CAD, etc., that should all be left to existing hardware.

By QuinnTheEskimo

Resident (41)

QuinnTheEskimo's picture

12-09-2007, 11:41

I agree that MSX has no chance in hell of competing with the PC, but the OCM in itself is not enough to make it a revival in my opinion. They need something bigger like a modern version of MSX Turbo R with 32/64 bit processors.

By nerlaska

Master (166)

nerlaska's picture

12-09-2007, 12:25

But .. you are speaking of make another computer .. where MSX is it? ... MSX is the current machine (MSX,2,2+,TR) and i think "revival" is in the freak hardware done for this machines (Sunrise Cartridges, Obsonet, the future SymbiFace III, etc.)
If you make another computer althought you mantain compatibility with older MSX version you don't have any different to a PC that lets you to have a very good emulation with BlueMSX or OpenMSX.
Then ... is a complex determination .. and .. you should think that all MSX user very different. Not all the people want the MSX in the same way. Not all the people extends their MSX in the same way then .. how many people is really interested in any kind of "revival"?
For me a hardware like SymbiFace III is a good MSX revival (VDP9990, MP3, Internet, SD Cards, USB) .. this + SymbOS is a pretty and fantastic MSX revival. Sure!

By konamiman

Paragon (1046)

konamiman's picture

12-09-2007, 13:28

I want a new MSX that looks like an MSX. The OCM initiative is nice, but sorry, it is ugly (I understand that the MSX-A is doing its best, that's not the question). A Turbo-R like computer with, say, a Z380 inside, would be veeeery cool. But, well, who is going to design and manufacture such thing? Any freaky millionaires here? Smile

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9778)

wolf_'s picture

12-09-2007, 13:36

It's funny how nearly two decades can make a difference. In the early 90's we'd all loved a 32Bit MSX if that would be possible in any way, and I think ppl also would've loved an even more advanced videocard than the G9k, and perhaps an even more advanced soundchip than the Moonsound. In the early days already the MSX standard endured some criticism due the 8-bit architecture and the outdated components, back then, ppl assumed a 16bit or 32bit MSX would soon follow. Back then, everything 'new' would be welcomed. And today? Today ppl grow weary of new hardware ideas/talks, or even factual new hardware. Why is that?
The difference between back then and today is that back then our MSX was -mostly- our only/allround computer. It was not just used for games/demos, but for text editing, database etc. Then the PC revolution halfway the 90's came, and ppl eventually moved to this PC world. The PC took over all the office tasks, "degrading" the MSX to a fun machine for demos and games (and related things like diskmags, musicdisks etc.). As people grow older, perhaps the urge or spare time to play games decreased, what value does the MSX have then in the end?
Another thing to point out is that in the 80's, lots of (home)computers were being made, MSX was just one of 'em. And ok, the MSX had the concept of standardization, but that didn't stop the industry to still create oodles o' brands. It's not much different from the world of synthesizers by the way, all those companies tried to define either 'the ultimate featured synthesizer' or 'the ultimate priced synthesizer for consumers'. And today? The wealth of choice in choosing a computer in the 80's has made place for a standard computer where the only difference is the price, and maybe quality priority (I put more prio in sound, HD speed, cpu and mem than in videocards, to name just a scenario), and the same can be applied to synths: I expect a number of synth companies to either vanish, completely move to software/plugins, or become special/elite/expensive.

I actually like to draw this comparison between synths and retro computers since there are quite some similarities:

  • both were made by many manufacturers, and quite a different bunch'a models and designs have been made
  • all manufacturers were gradually trying new techniques, as it was simply the time of technological exploration and efforts to find the best system for a certain pricetag
  • all those synths/computers are technically outdated by today's equipment.. today's equipment can emulate these old systems even.

Technically there's no reason to use an old computer, for synths this is slightly different as

  • the oldies were typically analogue -and some prefer that-
  • being used by artist xyz and some ppl have those synths for exactly that reason
  • looked spectacular compared to today's synths, I mean: look at a CS80, Jupiter 8, DX1 or Synthex, and you'll get my point.

Old computers look less spectacular from that point of view, they just worked.. a keyboard, a diskdrive.. that's it.

So, why am I still using that silly old machine? Tongue Two reasons:

  • to keep myself in shape, in order not to become lazy due all the technological options I have today, sometimes it's refreshing to have to design a game with screen 2 tiles, a fixed palette and limited VRAM. Sometimes it's also refreshing to recall what '24' channels means for production. Likewise it's refreshing to recall what 3 or 3+5 channels means for a composition. I actually think these points are valid for about everyone here.. at the same time I must confess that I'm totally addicted to crossdeveloment, so things aren't genuinely core-MSX anymore for me.. Tongue
  • because of this community.. I grew up with it, spent half my life with it, know quite some people. I hope that's also valid for most ppl..

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

oh dear.. BA-team

By QuinnTheEskimo

Resident (41)

QuinnTheEskimo's picture

12-09-2007, 14:15

The chance of a new modern msx standard to emerge is slim, perhaps only in retro fanatics imagination.
We can only wish.

But perhaps sooner or later someone will try to create a DIY MSX computer to put into a ATX box. That could be exciting enough.

MSX Association's idea with OCM is probably to appeal to old MSX users who want to play their old favourite games again, but has thrown away their old computer or got a defect one.

By [D-Tail]

Ascended (8233)

[D-Tail]'s picture

12-09-2007, 22:35

Well, there was/is(?) CIEL. Pretty cool though, I recall having seen some pictures in a hnoSTAR magazine.

By AuroraMSX

Paragon (1901)

AuroraMSX's picture

17-09-2007, 22:55

the same can be applied to synths: I expect a number of synth companies to either vanish, completely move to software/plugins, or become special/elite/expensive.
Really? I'm not so sure. Synths have been around longer than home computers and the diversity is still there. (Hurray for diversity Murdoch )

By RegalSin

Supporter (14)

RegalSin's picture

21-02-2008, 08:57

Well speaking of Neo-MSX. I believe we do have a chance of seeing one in todays so called post-9/11 ( or whatever you like to call it flat screen world )

I myself have many ideas like the rest of you for various companies ( sadly I am a Self-procliamed artist and not a self proclaimed programmer/egineer ) to enhance and even turn the clocks of time ( generally force consumers to buy our product ) however I do not know how to approace these organizations ( like SEGA, Konomi, Capcom Nintendo, SONY, or even Pannasonic

I would need to prepare a presentation with my purposal, with a live demistration, and then even contact the person who I would present or even state my idea that will revive etc.

I beleive if we could summon a rally of MSX users or people that have intrest in the MSX and get them to provide what they want in the new MSX we could make a revival.

I also beleive the MSX name itself ( since it just sounds good ) can be used in alternative computer based products from SONY. Thus providing MSX support.

The obvious thing the MSX name could be used for is the game system itself. Think about it instead of PS4 they would call it MSX Millenium or Neo-MSX Mach III. The PS4 would be near the shape of a MSX and have docing keyboard. that could be removed along with lighting on top with symbols in the icons itself. It would look something like that mini PC that was out in 2001-2005 ( I forget the name ) .

I was planning to get one of those mini PC that resembles the MSX look. In this case we could just program this mini PC and place the MSX logo on and allow MSX programs and data to be read with install or even outside devices. Then just slap MSX on it and presto MSX dreamo.

In all honesty a MSX emulator does justice for a home user and again it would be a game device like the PS4 and not a PC or even work computer unless it holds the MSX name.

---

You also have the consider that most home users or even proffessional work/business users don't really care about 24, 32, 64, or 228 bit anything. All you really need is a MSX pro enviorment and a whole bunch of tools including homer simpson documentation for Joe. The Neo-MSX would be something that would stirke fear in the hearts of Apple and Windows users. It could be like a gateway that is cost effective against the standard PC. All you would need is the right programs installed and a upgradable high Anything/CAD rendering enviorment like main PC's out there but with that MSX pro advantage.

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About the Amiga I heard it was somethign in germany a while back. The Amiga is great but as a user of game devices I prefer the SNES first over any Amiga.

By Latok

msx guru (3694)

Latok's picture

21-02-2008, 10:03

RegalSin, you are my new hero.

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