The pros and cons of revivalism.

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By wernerkai

Champion (357)

wernerkai's picture

27-02-2003, 00:37

I just can't believe that are so many people wasting brains and losing time (and perhaps some money too) in a anti-something or in a anti-anti-something discussion.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

27-02-2003, 00:43

ic, i read some tough replies... perhaps snout deleted those. too bad

Dunno where you read what, but there haven't been any tough replies at all...
I think that if something is deleted by the msx.org crew it is clearly stated.
Grauw and I were merely stating general things about misunderstandings.

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

27-02-2003, 00:43

ic, i read some tough replies... perhaps snout deleted those. too bad

Mark, I think you read those replies in other threads (or in the reaction sections). We did not delete any reactions at all. It's quite a bold statement you made here, especially since it's just not true. How about contributing to the discussion yourself? Smile

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

27-02-2003, 00:46

I just can't believe that are so many people wasting brains and losing time (and perhaps some money too) in a anti-something or in a anti-anti-something discussion.

Well, you're not OBLIGATED to discuss this, but it is about the future of MSX and the way we see the future of MSX. It does concern us all. This thread wasn't meant as an anti or anti-anti discussion (I for one think there are better words than 'anti' when it comes to this topic). What's most important is discussing how we can improve communication (and discussions) between several groups of MSX users. No metter how they think of the MSX Revival or the CIEL3++ or the war in Iraq or the latest fashion Wink

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

27-02-2003, 00:47

I just can't believe that are so many people wasting brains and losing time (and perhaps some money too) in a anti-something or in a anti-anti-something discussion.

That's the point this thread is trying to make. Anti-something is wrong, it's better to be positive and constructive about things.

Anyway, rest assured any discussion does not influence my MSX work in a bad way at all Smile

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

27-02-2003, 00:50

hmmmm I have the feeling I'm not alone on this forum at the moment Smile

By msxall

Rookie (23)

msxall's picture

27-02-2003, 02:01

Talking about the Manifest...

I believe that everyone has equal rights in expressing opinions and that this right need to be respected. However, I think that there are more adequate ways to express opinions. The original Manifest is straight to the point and always respectful. We surely didn't offend anyone cited there. We are democratic and opened for all opinions. The prove of that is that we did update several times the document just listening some tips and ideas from other users.

On the other hand, what I have noticed personally is that many people does not have the same behavior and try to defend some personal ideas with aggressiveness or imperialism. I have noticed that there are some "personalities" who thinks they are "the owner of the truth". Actually, they shows being more worried about them personal interests than about the MSX by itself.

Because situations like that we simply decided to ignore these groups that want to defend them position by force. Anyway, the manifest is real, polite and opened to everyone who wants to comment or participate, but we are 100% closed for stupid quarrels.

Therefore we know that the same right that we had in creating a manifesto AGAINST the MSX-Association any one has to create a manifesto SUPPORTING the MSX-Association. I just think that is illogical to create a manifesto against a manifesto... That doesn't make sense... Although, this is exactly "free expression" and we will respect them.

Anyway, if the authors of the ANTI-Manifest manifest decide to work serious I can create a link to them document in the official Manifest main page (since they make the same with us). Thus, we will be offering to the users who may are interested about this subject the access to the complete information (what, in our concept, is what matters: to inform the community what is happening).

To finish, I will copy the Slotman words: I have better things to do than stay arguing childish. I will not waste my time trying to defend our ideas because the Manifesto said everything what needed to be said.

We do not go to fight against that THEY HAVE CENSURED this subject in his Sites and lists, as also we do not go to strengthen us to convince nobody about nothing. In all the quarrels always there are three opinions: there are groups who will be AGAINST, other that will APROVE and always will be the ones that do not care about. I hope that these three sides learn how to coexist in a civilized and mature way.

I also hope that the MSX-Association publish something officially about what is mentioned in the Manifest. Unfortunately, the MSX-Association silence just fortify what is written there.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (116)

anonymous's picture

27-02-2003, 02:50

I agree with most msxall said here, but I do want to say that their manifest is everything but polite! I found it offensive myself, and I'm not even part of the organisations it is targeting. IMO, there really are some pretty bad insults made there.

By msxall

Rookie (23)

msxall's picture

27-02-2003, 03:17

Well, we are opened for all opinions. If you want to send us your comments about the parts you think that are offensive we will be very glad to take a review. Some time ago other user from this list had sent us a full text with his changes (lots of changes). We did read everything and most of the changes have had approved and we did update de Manifest. Big smile

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

28-02-2003, 22:38

msxall: it's good to hear you're open for discussions. But are you in for an open discussion (e.g. here or on the mailinglist) ^_^

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