april fool

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By PAC

Guardian (5236)

PAC's picture

04-04-2019, 22:58

Louthrax wrote:

IMHO, we should first try to contact Hans and see if he's willing or not to allow the re-hosting of his website somewhere. But so far it looks like nobody had any feedback from him since the shut-down anouncement?

I agree with you. Thanks to Hans this valuable information was preserved so at least we should ask him. On the other hand and as Rataplan pointed out, to lost this information is a serious matter...

By Latok

msx guru (3674)

Latok's picture

05-04-2019, 00:15

PAC, if I understand correctly, part of Hans his action is the continuous deeplinking on your site, www.msx.org, to his webpages without giving him credit. I would suggest you consult the other msx.org people and issue a statement. Doing that you might get somewhere with contacting Hans.

By Dreamerm42

Hero (621)

Dreamerm42's picture

07-04-2019, 03:25

very good idea! Smile

By Angelo Sanna

Rookie (23)

Angelo Sanna's picture

07-04-2019, 04:49

Well, that's all about: the scene! Because the 'scene' thinks that MSX is only about a couple of people that was once 'big' in the scene, but forget about the people who oiled the motor. So, we saw at the end of 2018 that Alex (Hydragon) Koedooder has placed many times messages about his x-mass event, but a 'moderator' wouldn't suggest his message because he think it is not important. That ignorant style and also in the past, like ignore people like Marinus Stoker who has brought us MSX info magazine, and so many more examples, because some musical stuff from Wolff (no offence) is more important than people who does matter. You know about it.

I have try'ed to explain to this moderator on MRC (no offence to the staff or MRC, it is critic, but please, see it in the context) , he have an attitude like a king "Louis van Gaal", so no communication possible. Too bad, MSX is for everyone, also for the examples you don't like. So that's why Hans Otten is coming: people like Patrick "TNI/paniek" Lesparre (banned from MRC), he could be a good innovator but his behaviour is like shit, and some more. I know all about it, spoke with Hans about it and agree with it. And I spoke him about it years ago, we go back into time, I guess 2002/2004? Somelike. So I know what he is thinking, and I agree with it.

Don't think because this is MRC, this is the word of MSX: no, we are MSX supporter! We ALL made a contribution to this system! No matter who you are, no space for ego! I saw it over and over again, since the '90's. Ego here, ego there. Too bad. Lets innovate! Lets get friends together, lets respect each other, and mention people, people you think they are not important but participate in this scene. It is not only about Wolff (respect), or some other scene member. it is all about US, we are MSX! Let's stick together, and stop all the fights. I think we must all think like pioneers like Kazuhiko Nishi, as one, to innovate the system, any contribute is worth it. Evil

So, I think it is time to made some conclusions: Hans Otten quit with his page, has a reason, a wake up call for everyone in the scene. Hans have a message. Think about it. Everyone talk about his quitting, so, that would be enough to conclude his contribution was gold in the tech manner. And now he is gone. So now what?

By gdx

Prophet (2984)

gdx's picture

07-04-2019, 11:32

Latok, Louthrax, PAC@

I do not think his agreement is necessary for most content because almost everything are technical documentations. Hans worked for his site but if the site is closed, nothing can stop people from continuing to do the same thing and it would be stupid to start from scratch again.

And about credits, most information I put in MRC's wiki are found on Japanese sites, books and magazines. I also many information comes from Korean sites and French books. I do not often put credits because it is often a synthesis of a lot of information, or I do not know the real origin.
Before I put a few link to Hans site but I stopped it because Hans often changed the links on his site. I assumed he did not like it.

Hans is not obliged but he could at least explain himself here because like many people I do not understand his decision.

Angelo Sanna@

I agree all users are welcome even without contribute. Let users savor the MSX in their own way!

By Rataplan

Master (214)

Rataplan's picture

10-04-2019, 09:38

Hans updated his statement on http://msx.hansotten.com. So yes, it's gone 'fforever'. I'm currently fixing the HTML of my copy from January 9th, so at least I have a copy I can navigate through.

By Grauw

Ascended (8406)

Grauw's picture

10-04-2019, 11:02

That’s very kind of Hans! And glad to hear you have a copy, Rataplan.

I would be willing to host a mirror if needed (on e.g. msxhans.grauw.nl) to make the material accessible again. However I don’t plan on maintaining the page, so long term I think it would be best if the service manuals and such were migrated to archive.org over time, indexed and linked from the wiki pages here on msx.org.

I can also provide remote access if someone wants to take on maintenance of the original page, but I think it’s better to go the archive.org + msx.org wiki way since there’s already a very active team here, and archive.org is a very solid permanent place to put those service manuals and such, it already has a lot of MSX content.

p.s. The statement on msx.hansotten.com says the license is "Creative Commons Attribution Non Commercial" (CC BY-NC), however the summary below it says NoDerivatives as well. Not sure if this is a copy/paste error, or whether it’s actually licensed CC BY-NC-ND, if it’s the latter that means updating the pages isn’t permitted, so all the more reason to migrate it to archive.org + msx.org wiki.

By gdx

Prophet (2984)

gdx's picture

10-04-2019, 10:54

Thanks Hans for the statement.

Grauw@ PDFs can not be uploaded to MRC, is not it!

By Grauw

Ascended (8406)

Grauw's picture

10-04-2019, 10:55

@gdx I am suggesting PDFs are uploaded to archive.org and linked from the msx.org wiki pages.

By rderooy

Hero (580)

rderooy's picture

10-04-2019, 10:58

Grauw wrote:

@gdx I am suggesting PDFs are uploaded to archive.org and linked from the msx.org wiki pages.

I think that you will find that most manuals can already be found on archive.org.

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