Wiki editing discussion

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By gdx

Prophet (3046)

gdx's picture

28-09-2019, 10:24

Manuel wrote:

As I said, it reproduces the table for international character set from the MSX Technical Databook.

But it's handled differently on these MSXs.

By Manuel

Ascended (15763)

Manuel's picture

28-09-2019, 12:41

What is?

As I said, these tables just depict how a character code in VRAM is shown. The output I gave is what the VDP displays with these character codes in VRAM on the AX-170.

So if you mean that how to produce it with the BIOS is handled differently: yes it probably is, but it's not relevant to show how the 256 different character codes are rendered. I.e. what the character set is.

By gdx

Prophet (3046)

gdx's picture

28-09-2019, 15:05

What I mean is that it does not correspond to the explanations of the wiki.

By Manuel

Ascended (15763)

Manuel's picture

28-09-2019, 20:09

So, it's time we improve the article...

I created MSX Technical Databook tables for several character set types: https://msx.pics/album/lW6e

By gdx

Prophet (3046)

gdx's picture

29-09-2019, 10:58

First to edit a wiki, take into account what has already been done! For example, respect the meaning of the columns and the rows of the tables that have already been done. There is no point in reversing them.

Then I feel that you confuse font saved in VRAM with a character set, then JIS, ANSI with MSX coding. MSX coding is compatible with the ASCII coding such as JIS and "ANSI" but JIS is to support Kanjis and "ANSI" to support characters with accents. "ANSI" is in fact a Western Latin coding from ANSI. It is not used on MSX. JIS coding is used on MSX but needs a Kanji ROM.

If you use your method to found the characters in the Kanji-ROM, you will see that they are arranged differently from the JIS encoding. Normally, the developer must access via the driver or the rule by entering the system (code JIS or S-JIS) to print a character. For MSX font, we must access via the system instructions / routines (CHR$ in Basic).

So yes, it would be interesting to add how the characters are arranged in the ROM / VRAM but do it at least respecting what has already been done please!

In closing, I do not pretend that everything that has been put is 100% correct. There are things to change and add. There are a few characters to change in tables. It should also be made clear that there may be differences from one MSX to another.

By Manuel

Ascended (15763)

Manuel's picture

29-09-2019, 17:58

I used that order because it's how the MSX Technical Databook presents it. Seems like a good idea to use the layout if the official documentation.

Kanji was not in my scope. JIS and ANSI refer to the keyboard type used in these machines. I was wondering if there was a difference between the character sets between them.

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5513)

mars2000you's picture

29-09-2019, 18:42

No, it's not always a good idea to use the layour of the official documentation, especially in this case, as it creates confusion with the logic of the hexadecimal values, and it's contrary to the layout of all hexadecimal editors.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

18-10-2019, 11:21

Mars2000you, on the NEOS EX-4 wiki page you wrote:

Quote:

The MSX logo does not appear on this product because it does not strictly meet the MSX specifications.

What’s the source of this information and in what way does it not meet the MSX specifications then?

By mars2000you

Enlighted (5513)

mars2000you's picture

18-10-2019, 11:29

Japanese Wiki: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX

Excerpt:
EX-4(NEOS)
MSX向けの製品だが、厳密にはMSXの仕様を満たさないため、MSXマークは付いていない。

Translation:
EX-4 (NEOS)
Although it is a product for MSX, strictly speaking, it does not meet the MSX specification, so it does not have the MSX mark.

I am really surprised to see that many MRC users are not able to visit Japanese pages.

By gdx

Prophet (3046)

gdx's picture

18-10-2019, 12:00

I think Japanese wikipedia is right. Replace the BIOS by another in a different slot is not provided by the standard and I/O port 88h-8Ah are reserved for a second VDP only. The MA-20 just uses these tricks to run a maximum of software. It's clever but not really standard.

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