Wiki editing discussion

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By Manuel

Ascended (15756)

Manuel's picture

26-07-2019, 09:32

It was not in my Sony HB-G900P box at least...

By hamlet

Scribe (2536)

hamlet's picture

26-07-2019, 09:40

Nor in mine.

By Manuel

Ascended (15756)

Manuel's picture

20-08-2019, 16:31

Regarding the "MSX font" article: instead of the confusing matrix figure with all the control codes, why not use the character set figure from the MSX Technical Databook page 317/318? It only contains the glyphs and the numbers are matching the values in VRAM.
Due to the control codes confusion, the current figure also misses the character at 0x7F.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

20-08-2019, 16:52

Oh boy, since the Unicode guys used the chart on that wiki page as a reference, does that mean they missed defining a code for the 0x7F character?

By Manuel

Ascended (15756)

Manuel's picture

20-08-2019, 22:29

Indeed. That's exactly why I came up with this point...

Question of the day: how to type that character?
The Sony MSX manuals don't even show the character. And the Philips manual I found shows this character at 0xD8, which is wrong (see MSX Technical Databook).

This is the stuff according to ASCII (international MSX versions: USA, INT, UK, DIN and French):

(the 0 is different on DIN systems, it mentions, of course).
And for Japanese machines:

No mention of Spanish, Russian, Korean, etc...

By gdx

Prophet (3040)

gdx's picture

21-08-2019, 00:57

The wiki explains the font of the system in general and not specific case for the VRAM. You can add how, where and when the system transfer the for VRAM if you think it better.

About the 0x7F character, the standard (japanese source) says it's the DEL code and nothing is displayed.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

21-08-2019, 04:11

The font is what is shown above in Manuel’s post. It does not include control codes.

Don’t confuse it with the character encoding (often named “character set” but that’s an older less precise term), which does include control codes. Part of the MSX character encoding is that a byte 01h is a prefix encoding for one of the graphic characters (whereas in the Unicode or Shift-JIS character encodings this is done with a different sequence).

This goes back to the earlier discussion about that the “MSX font” wiki page also describes the character encoding. They are two different things. Yes 0x7F is the code point for DEL, but that does not mean that little standing triangle character does not exist.

By Manuel

Ascended (15756)

Manuel's picture

21-08-2019, 09:35

Indeed, although the Japanese version of the character set doesn't have a character at 7F. Note that the same mistake was also made on the Wikipedia article, in contrast to the article on the codepage it was based on (according to the same article).
As I don't have time to edit this article now, I made a remark on the Talk page about this issue.

I do wonder who generated these nice character table figures in our MSX font article. Looks better than the tables from the MSX Technical Databook...

By gdx

Prophet (3040)

gdx's picture

21-08-2019, 09:45

Yes, we talked about it before.
The title may be more accurate like "MSX font, characters set and coding" and/or the pages about them need a reorganization. I agree if anyone wants to do it.

About the little standing triangle character, I don't known if it exists or not. It should be a small program to check on all possible MSX.

By Manuel

Ascended (15756)

Manuel's picture

21-08-2019, 09:50

gdx wrote:

Yes, we talked about it before.
The title may be more accurate like "MSX font, characters set and coding" and/or the pages about them need a reorganization. I agree if anyone wants to do it.

About the little standing triangle character, I don't known if it exists or not. It should be a small program to check on all possible MSX.

It definitely exists. Try VPOKE 0,&H7F on a European MSX and it will show. I do not know how to produce it with the keyboard, though. Perhaps someone could make a program to extract the character set directly from ROM... It should produce the same table as in the MSX Technical Databook.

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