My first MSX! Loving it, but I have questions about the video

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By liveinabin

Rookie (19)

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30-06-2020, 20:06

Nprod wrote:

They're not something i'd use daily, but the color reproduction and black levels of CRTs remain unmatched by anything you'd get out of a modern LCD. I get that they're bulky and inconvenient, but i prefer them for retro stuff. Here is what i'm getting from my setup:

No jailbars, any blurryness at the edges of pixels gets cut off by the trinitron slot mask so the image looks sufficiently sharp. The only thing i'm not happy with is how the black spills over as green in the white areas, perhaps there is a pot for that?

That does look good, I will admit.

By Nprod

Expert (78)

Nprod's picture

30-06-2020, 23:19

liveinabin wrote:

..exactly the same picture on all of my displays!

Kind of funny getting an entire new machine just to test this but hey, as long as it works... Reminds me of how i originally got my HB75 to troubleshoot a Sanyo machine, but everything about the Sony was just better so i ended up using that.

liveinabin wrote:

That does look good, I will admit.

Thanks Smile The TV is a Sony KV-M14. If you end up looking for a CRT, be aware that since "retro" stuff has become more sought-after these days, opportunistic sellers will try to flog any garbage with a trinitron badge on it for ridiculous prices. I got mine locally for about 15€ from people trying to get rid of it.

By liveinabin

Rookie (19)

liveinabin's picture

01-07-2020, 12:59

Sadly, I didn't have much of a choice. The MSX was a huge flop here in UK and I've never met anyone else who owns one. The chances of me borrowing another for diagnostics were nil Smile
Still, given that it was not either MSXs fault, I can just give this new one a good clean and service and sell it on eBay (I'll definitely get more than £50 for it). It's a hassle, but it was certainly useful.

I did used to own a KV-M14. That was a decent TV.

By Nprod

Expert (78)

Nprod's picture

01-07-2020, 19:12

They never even sold MSXes where i live, the Sanyo one i originally found listed locally as an "old keyboard"... As far as i can tell the Toshiba HX-10 was the most popular one in the UK - theres plenty of them on ebay.co.uk. I'm a fan of their animated adverts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03GGIxMGcq8

By liveinabin

Rookie (19)

liveinabin's picture

01-07-2020, 22:57

It is. I can't help but think that if the UK had been exposed to literally any other MSX model, things might have been different. I'm sure the HX-10 works fine, but it has none of that cool Japanese 80s styling that MSX does best.

By CASDuino

Master (154)

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01-07-2020, 23:33

I prefer the look of the HX-10 to the Sony Hit-Bits.

By liveinabin

Rookie (19)

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02-07-2020, 15:16

I must admit, I've not seen one up close.

By Wild_Penguin

Hero (598)

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28-07-2020, 18:10

I think the TV with the blanking issue could benefit from a sync cleaner.

The thing is, that the HB-75P (as I think you already tested yourself reading this thread) is outputting composite video from pin 19 (to pin 20). This should be fine (as in "permitted" by the SCART RGB specification), however some new(er) LCD TVs have problems with this. Some work fine with composite here, some don't - I've had this problem myself, possibly exactly with the HB-75P, but it could also be some of the other MSXes with RGB I own (it's been a while since I've owned any flat TVs). But, IIRC, from my MSXes with RGB in SCART (NMS8255, AX-350II, HB-75P) this is the only model which outputs composite video at the sync pin, instead of just the composite sync signal.

Also, there's sometimes some mixup with pins 8 (off/on/aspect) and 16 (blanking). There are MSXes which are just a bit non-standard (IIRC NMS825Xs output 5V at the latter!), and even some LCD TVs don't actually follow the specs. Many CRT TVs had an option to override the signal (RGB/composite/S-Video - some didn't even care about these pins and did no autodetection whatsoever!), probably for this exact reason. When flat/LCD TVs started to become common, many manufacturers still had this option in the menus to override what's detected. However, to make things worse, newer TVs / monitors with SCART seem to omit these options (as a small interesting fact: S-Video can not be reliably autodetected by the TV, as it does not have a dedicated voltage range at pin 16).

In summary: you could try a sync cleaner/stripper such as one of the options on this page, and you may get the HB-75P working on all your flat TVs (though I can not be totally sure about this). Optimally, get a CRT TV/monitor which can sync to PAL RGB.

EDIT: It won't solve the blue tint of the 75P however. I've had this and tried to tune the potentiometers, even with the help of an oscilloscope to check the levels of the signal(s). There will always be a blue tint (someone correct me, but reading this thread, I believe it is just because how the RGB signal is derived).

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