In your opinion...

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By PingPong

Prophet (3460)

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24-04-2012, 13:29

we all know that the blitter speed of vdp is not enough to make decent animations in games, if used in bitmap mode screen 5.
In your opinion ,how much fast should have gone the blitter to achieve minimal decent result? 1.5X, 3X,.......?
(Please avoid 50X or more ;-) )

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By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

24-04-2012, 14:55

How about 49x?

More is always better. If not for updating the whole screen in a simple matter (drawing tiles) then for drawing sprites using timp and logical stuff like xor, and having multilayers. Also think about softsprites instead of hardware sprites, the advantage is that you're free to let them move behind or in front of other graphics.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

24-04-2012, 14:55

wolf_ wrote:

How about 49x?

More is always better. If not for updating the whole screen in a simple matter (drawing tiles) then for drawing sprites using timp and logical stuff like xor, and having multilayers. Also think about softsprites instead of hardware sprites, the advantage is that you're free to let them move behind or in front of other graphics.

Ok, we are kidding :-)
Obviously having the speed of a modern GPU is good, but i'm thinking to a good compromise, or perhaps a minimum requirement. And 49X is obviously like 50.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5399)

NYYRIKKI's picture

24-04-2012, 14:37

I would say 20x would be nice. (Enough for SCREEN 8 draw & sprites on 60fps without logops = No need for double buffering that we have no enough VRAM)

By PingPong

Prophet (3460)

PingPong's picture

24-04-2012, 22:09

NYYRIKKI wrote:

I would say 20x would be nice. (Enough for SCREEN 8 draw & sprites on 60fps without logops = No need for double buffering that we have no enough VRAM)

So, pratically, for you & wolf, the speed of a v9990 is just enough.....

By Maggoo

Paragon (1195)

Maggoo's picture

24-04-2012, 22:12

I would not even care for a Blitter at all if it had a bitmap (screen 5 like) tiles mode and bitmap sprites like the Master System VDP.

By anonymous

incognito ergo sum (109)

anonymous's picture

25-04-2012, 01:40

Well, if a 50-speed 9938 is not an option, let alone a new video chip, then a v9990 will certainly do. Moreover: hundreds o' people *have* a v9990, what they don't have is software for it. So, while I'm not sure what the intention of the question was, let this be another hint towards development for the v9990.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5399)

NYYRIKKI's picture

24-04-2012, 23:20

Well... Actually I think that even current speed is beyond "minimal decent result". The problem here is that you asked us to select a value between 1 and 50. If we get a bit faster VDP then it will be a bit better... If we get a lot faster VDP then it will be a lot better... In this case only maximum is optimal value. Only change in this straight line is the point where we can do things on VDP faster than the TV can display (think about mach). This will allow dropping of double buffering without artifacts and therefore this was the logical point to select between these limits.

Quote:

So, pratically, for you & wolf, the speed of a v9990 is just enough.....

I would not put it quite like that... For me the speed that we have is better than the speed that we don't have. Wink

By PingPong

Prophet (3460)

PingPong's picture

25-04-2012, 10:27

Maggoo wrote:

I would not even care for a Blitter at all if it had a bitmap (screen 5 like) tiles mode and bitmap sprites like the Master System VDP.

Tile based modes are only a workaround for limited processing power.
They are like hw sprites, they appear powerfull, but are limited.
It's not by accident that more powerfull computers did not use pattern modes, but are all bitmap oriented.
Watch the amiga, the engineers followed the bitmap+blitter road instead of "Pattern mode & hw sprites".
Effectively, the amiga has hw sprites but they are extremely limited compared to the blitter gfx.
The 'creator' of TMS VDP has confirmed that sw sprites implementations are better than hw sprites ones.

Bitmap modes have (if there is enough processing power) more advantages:
- easy addressability (usually)
- the animations are free from constraints given by the patterns (think about sw sprites made up of tiles, it's not praticable to emulate trasparency over a background, nor smooth movements)
- Because they work at a pixel basis, there are more effects possible.

By PingPong

Prophet (3460)

PingPong's picture

25-04-2012, 10:35

wolf_ wrote:

Well, if a 50-speed 9938 is not an option, let alone a new video chip, then a v9990 will certainly do. Moreover: hundreds o' people *have* a v9990, what they don't have is software for it. So, while I'm not sure what the intention of the question was, let this be another hint towards development for the v9990.

The question is, pratically: *resonable* speed.
For example, if one should do a screen 5 scroll by bitblitting an entire page, the actual vdp can do this at 6 fps. This is of course to slow. However requesting a 300 fps (50x) have no meaning. one should take in account the class of the machine and the era it was developed. So a more meaningful answer would be "i wanna go at least 15fps doing a brute force scroll on a sc5 page so, almost 3 times faster". This is not an extremely super fast speed, only an acceptable one, IMHO

By hap

Paragon (2021)

hap's picture

25-04-2012, 12:13

Hey, you started with "In your opinion...", don't put restrictions on their opinions then. BA-team

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