MSX1 vs C64

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By hit9918

Prophet (2905)

hit9918's picture

30-01-2018, 21:13

ren wrote:

Simultaneous BGM & SFX easier to pull of properly on the AY-3-8910?

yes! the SID has no volume registers! it has internal state of a hardware ADSR that one cannot poke
while the AY has 3 freely acessible volume registers. in that part the little AY has the higher spec than the SID
to play an fx and then immedeately correctly continue with the music is no problem on AY

By Grauw

Ascended (10024)

Grauw's picture

30-01-2018, 21:23

wolf_ wrote:

Then again, MJTT features FM-sounds on SCC... so: dilemma! Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

Tell me more. You rendered out the FM waveforms to 32-byte SCC waveforms and scan through them?

One day I want to make an FM emulator for SCC Smile.

hit9918 wrote:

yes! the SID has no volume registers! it has internal state of a hardware ADSR that one cannot poke
while the AY has 3 freely acessible volume registers. in that part the little AY has the higher spec than the SID to play an fx and then immedeately correctly continue with the music is no problem on AY

Ahh, that would be a problem indeed, so they would have to dedicate a channel to sound effects…

By Shinobi

Master (152)

Shinobi's picture

30-01-2018, 21:21

Still, MSX graphics and sound seems more clean.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5848)

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30-01-2018, 21:35

ren wrote:

Btw: SID ;)

Thank you... This was actually what I wanted to link, but I forgot the name... This also fights a bit against what TomH said... Ok, sure ~20% is a bit much CPU power to put in to music, but with the remaining 80% you should still be able to do quite a bad ass game if you put your self into it... Naturally I understand that amount of RAM is next problem... I think that RAM expansions were a lot more popular on MSX than on C64.

By TomH

Champion (327)

TomH's picture

30-01-2018, 21:43

Re: clean graphics; there's no version of the VIC-II that has better than an S-Video output that I'm aware of. That avoids the luminance/chrominance cross-talk of a composite signal but both colour signals are still combined, each given less bandwidth than that required for the number of pixels on the display. So you're not going to get the sharpness of an RGB machine.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9888)

wolf_'s picture

30-01-2018, 21:51

Grauw wrote:

Tell me more. You rendered out the FM waveforms to 32-byte SCC waveforms and scan through them?

Yea, simply recorded some FM tones from openMSX, looped the relevant section and reduced them to 8 bit, with a length of 32 bytes. Wink If you have an FM system in which you don't apply any modulator changes (envelope, vibrato, scaling), the effect is the same: a static waveform.

By Manuel

Ascended (18093)

Manuel's picture

30-01-2018, 21:54

OMG, that SID tune is truly amazing... what's the catch? Lots of work to compose this with special tricks?

By hit9918

Prophet (2905)

hit9918's picture

30-01-2018, 21:58

the SID tune is FAKE.
"In this song, you are listening to 2 SID channels plus 3 digi channels".
and digi = fake. it never happens in-game.
the MSX too can play digi on the AY on a blank screen.

By Grauw

Ascended (10024)

Grauw's picture

30-01-2018, 22:10

wolf_ wrote:
Grauw wrote:

Tell me more. You rendered out the FM waveforms to 32-byte SCC waveforms?

Yea, simply recorded some FM tones from openMSX, looped the relevant section and reduced them to 8 bit, with a length of 32 bytes. Wink If you have an FM system in which you don't apply any modulator changes (envelope, vibrato, scaling), the effect is the same: a static waveform.

I see… The next step would be to generate multiple waveforms for the modulator as it progresses through the envelope, and scan through them… Trilo Tracker can do it :).

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9888)

wolf_'s picture

30-01-2018, 22:16

That vid is played at 60 Hz, quite a bit too fast. These speed-differences (read: locking the metronome to something that is influenced by region) is one of the most annoying things MSX has to offer btw.

Either way: first question you need to ask is whether you actually need tones that change in FM-fashion anyway, before anyone tries to code something that just isn't needed anyway. Even in my FM8 stuff the amount of modulator level changes is quite limited. Though this is mostly based on my making simulations of instruments like strings, woodwinds and brass, and these don't really change their tone during playback.

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