MSX scene going banana's?

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By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

06-06-2011, 21:24

@kuuno: later this year, the MSX Resource Center will get a massive update. As part of this, there will be a wiki which we hope will become a great starting point for beginning, novice and expert developers for MSX . The goal is to provide a plaform where, potentially, the vast amount of knowledge that is now scattered all over the MRC, internet, old (disk) magazines and individuals can be centralized. We are working hard on tweaking the last parts of MRC 2k11 -- and filling up the wiki with brief sections that can only be regarded as a starting point -- inviting anyone in the MSX community to join in and contribute, share their knowledge.

By kuuno

Master (231)

kuuno's picture

06-06-2011, 21:33

@hap
Grauw has indeed a lot of good information, but information is not by definition knowledge when you dont know how to use it (in my case Wink)
The information on that site, combined with a steady codebase / library would increase the possibility to start experimenting.

@hit, I still have some MSX 2 machines left Wink I think there are many MSX (2>) users here that are happy to try out the code.

@eugeny
I'll try not to curse here, but if developers (hard and software) would make their project more open / accessible (thus online) there is a bigger chance that project will be finished and or will inspire others to 'run with the idea's'.
Projectmanagement in the current scene is a bad idea, since everybody is working in their own haste.
Many idea's and projects were not finished due to... time, age, priorities etc. and got lost on old (corrupt) harddrives, disks, paper (tapes?).
As @hit mentioned, the wisdom within these crowds seems to be fading.

@snout
Good to hear there are plans to centralize all the scattered knowledge!

By hap

Paragon (2037)

hap's picture

06-06-2011, 22:10

kuuno in my book a newbie that needs to be spoonfed has near-0 chance of becoming a good programmer

By kuuno

Master (231)

kuuno's picture

06-06-2011, 22:42

@hap
So if I read all the theory on how to drive a car, I am able to drive a car?
Knowledge = information x experience, attitude and skill
I agree that knowledge take a lot of time to gain, but without proper guidance I would still be a crappy driver. (that's not my reason of not having a driverlicence btw :evilSmile

By hap

Paragon (2037)

hap's picture

06-06-2011, 23:01

Of course, spoonfeeding != guidance.
You're missing determination, patience .. and willingness to FAIL epicly. Tongue

but information is not by definition knowledge when you dont know how to use it (in my case )You see, determination here would get you somewhere. Download many technical manuals of MSX components, start your own little library on your harddisk and read stuff through. Google for a random Z80 tutorial, etc.

By Tanni

Hero (556)

Tanni's picture

07-06-2011, 01:05

@kuuno:

A lot of this expertise is shared in different topics, yet I've never seen a code-library (like MSDN) nor a site where development projects are gathered.
Is this troublesome? I don't know. ... Yesh, I have a (japanese) basic manual, and yesh there are a lot of technical books available on the internet.
What I find missing is a library with sample code, (basic, machine language, c, pascal) and executables.

Actually, it isn't. Many of us started out with just a manual and/or a few little BASIC programms from magazines back then. If you get a whole library of code, you'll be discouraged most likely.

For me, as a non-programmer, I find it hard to start learning any basic or advanced programming techniques.
Start out with small little programs, as the famous ''Hallo world'' and go on step by step. And don't mind about ''programming techniques'' or a special game or whatever. This will come later, if you licked blood.

@snout:

I hope we'll get a nice personal message feature in the new MRC.

By dhofstede

Supporter (7)

dhofstede's picture

07-06-2011, 13:29

Just breaking in:
Imho: first you need an idea what to make (shooter, app, etc.)
Then, when you a total starter, you will need some examples, e.g. how to put a score on the screen, how to move a sprite, how to make a sprite.

These examples have to be explained by some experts. (in a database).
Every line of BASIC code has to be explained.

That's not hard to do, in fact: it could be fun to explain on a dummy proof base.
If these examples could be found in one place and next to that the ideas of many MSX lovers, then you could add another section where the ideas are coded by several people so you can see the difference while the main idea is the same. This alos is a learning point for the beginner.

Just an idea....

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5874)

NYYRIKKI's picture

07-06-2011, 15:50

@hap
So if I read all the theory on how to drive a car, I am able to drive a car?

Yes, that is correct! This does not mean that you won't crash, but if you take the wheel to your own hands and drive to a tree you will learn from your mistakes faster than any guru in this world can ever teach you.

I would not recommend this with a real car, but for example in games this method works very well... Same thing with computer programming... You can't really hurt your self or the computer, so testing, doing all the wrong things etc is actually absolutely best way to learn. Sure you need to get some basic facts straight before you can get started, but after that you just need to hit your head to wall over and over again to become a good programmer. When you find a problem you can't solve your self, you need to ask for help or look for more information.

You can only become quite ok programmer if someone guides you all the time what to do next, but to become really good you have to learn solving your own problems. I think Norakomi is a very good example of this... One day he just wanted to do a sequel to Space Manbow, but he didn't have any idea what to do next or how to program. Then he started reading stuff and asked plenty of questions here in the forums. It actually didn't take even long before we had Manbow 2 in our hands. I also think that I'm pretty good example as an MSX tR programmer. I've learned to do what I want to do, but at the same time I'm also only one of my kind in my country. I must also say that when I started my contacts and documents about MSX were really narrow, but I still managed to write my own programs. Luckily later internet came available also to me and changed all that.

To wrap it up: No, you don't need guidance, you just need to want to do and learn.

Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By Eugeny_Brychkov

Paragon (1183)

Eugeny_Brychkov's picture

07-06-2011, 18:34

I'll try not to curse here, but if developers (hard and software) would make their project more open / accessible (thus online) there is a bigger chance that project will be finished and or will inspire others to 'run with the idea's'.
I disagree. Being more open or online will not increase interest of the people. Unless "open and online" means for free.

As @hit mentioned, the wisdom within these crowds seems to be fading.
Crowd can not have wisdom. It has power. Leader has the wisdom - to use power of the crowd.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6538)

ARTRAG's picture

08-06-2011, 08:17

A leader could be aslo useful to promote competition among developers
Anyone willing to breack the msx2 stagnation?

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