MSX scene going banana's?

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By Daemos

Paragon (1952)

Daemos's picture

30-05-2011, 01:09

I see it like this:

MSX1 is great fun for the games that it has right now. The simple addictive repetetive games. Take HERO or beamrider for example I can play that over and over and over.

However when we speak of high end graphics. Pushing eye candy to the limit and making games that are rather sensational then the MSX2 has a lot more to offer 2+ / TR can even do better.

I do see a huge trend towards MSX1. I can understand this, I love MSX2 because I had one in my childhood. We have to remember that many people had MSX1 in their childhood. We are all seratonin junkies in the end Wink

By max_iwamoto

Hero (528)

max_iwamoto's picture

30-05-2011, 01:52

@kuuno
Thanks god someone else noticed it! I'm trying to workaround this by releasing Turbofixes, enhanced versions and HDD versions so high-spec MSX owners can enjoy their machines better. I hope you like those patches.

@Meits
To me, it's harder and require more time to code anything decent on the MSX1 than on the MSX2/2+. The excessive limitations of the MSX1 require too much time to deal with them.

@viejo_archivero
I have nothing agains those who like to code MSX1-only, but I always advocate for freedom. It just don't matter if a game is MSX1/2/2+/TR on a competition: If a game is good it will stand out regardless of the specs. Your IOZM is an excellent example of that. I would vote for it no matter if there was any MSX2+ 19268 colors not-that-good game competing with it.

1. Thanks to kuuno for the topic.

2. Thanks to sd_snatcher for patches / improvements. And I also don't understand why ask sd_snatcher to make a smooth scroll for MSX1 games when everybody enjoying so much 8 pixels scrolling on MSX1? I have nothing against playing Nemesis, Salamander, etc... on MSX1 but I am also enjoying doing it on MSX2/2+.

3. I 100% agree with sd_snatcher that it is easier and faster to code game for MSX2/2+. I think we would have more entries on MSXDEV if MSX2/2+ was an option. And I spent my young years on MSX1 and MSX2, I love them both, but I think we have a huge amount of new software for MSX1 and only patches/updates/fixes for MSX2/2+/TR.

4. I think it should be at lest 2 categories in the competition - MSX1 and MSX2. Plus bonus points if game have extra features when run on MSX2+/TR and using SCC/MSX-AUDIO/etc extensions.

By Meits

Scribe (6446)

Meits's picture

30-05-2011, 06:27

I can't even code for MSX1, because all I want/can is impossible on that thing Wink I'd rather see MSX2 and higher stuff as well, but the possibilities on those platforms are rather bigger than on an MSX1, and therefor the projects might get too big to keep the team focused for a longer period (more gfx, more music, more code, more disks to fill). So I see a reason.

By pitpan

Prophet (3144)

pitpan's picture

30-05-2011, 07:25

Well. If you guys remember, at the beginning of the 00's there were no MSX1 game releases at all. The last one was probably released by ANMA in 199X. That was what made me think about a big MSX1 game development contest, and therefore, MSXdev was born. I didn't force anyone to code for MSX1, but finally it happened and now we have a healthy MSX1 scene once again.

Instead of blaming MSX developers, why don't you have some brilliant idea to relaunch MSX2 and up? I think it could be a more interesting approach to the situation Wink

By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

MäSäXi's picture

30-05-2011, 08:26

Kuuno, the way you talked about everybody else having at least MSX2, I guessed you surely live in The Netherlands. In the 1980s, except some japanese and except some lucky european bastards (=those who lived in the netherlands...Wink) (almost) NOBODY had MSX2 in this planet. Maybe that explains something why MSX(1) is so fancy thing today? Smile

did you know that spacemanbow would have been possible on an msx1 too (without the screensplit/smooth scroll)
I must say, that when I heard of Space Manbow for the very first time, I always thought it was something REALLY *SPECIAL* what MSX2 only can give in the MSX world, but years later, when I saw space manbow video for the very first time, I was really surprised, as I understood that I was looking at (almost) MSX(1) game, it looked really like other Konami´s MSX(1) shooters, even colour scheme is just like what MSX1 Konami shooters had, just imagine it being 8 pixel scroller and change small enemy ships monochrome and you´ll see Smile. (No, I don´t mean it is a bad game because of that. I just never thought of that it looks like MSX(1) gameSmile)

I love MSX2 because I had one in my childhood. We have to remember that many people had MSX1 in their childhood.
Yeah, everybody loves things they had in their childhood, it may be harder to love something which wasn´t part of one´s own childhood.

I can't even code for MSX1, because all I want/can is impossible on that thing Wink
Nothing is impossible, you just have to think and do things MSX(1) way. Wink But of course I understood what you mean. Smile

Well. If you guys remember, at the beginning of the 00's there were no MSX1 game releases at all.
Yeah, I do remember, that it was hard to even talk about MSX(1) here almost ten years ago.... it was like if you said something about MSX(1), you got laughed at the face. Things have changed a bit after the first msx-dev contest.

By Akiguchi

Hero (620)

Akiguchi's picture

30-05-2011, 08:44

MSX 2 / Turbo R also have their limitations and boundaries such as in MSX 1, so I don't really understand why don't anyone want to push those boundaries. I think it is the same thing on all platforms - it's just on different scale. I would be just thrilled to see what MSX 2 / R could really accomplish on their upper limits! Sadly, I can't code a bit by myself, so for that reason I'm enjoying all the new games regardless any specific platform. Smile

By yzi

Champion (444)

yzi's picture

30-05-2011, 09:19

When I was a kid, MSX1 was the only MSX practically anybody knew, and MSX2 didn't really get that much attention in Finland. No company imported MSX2 machines to Finland (except for some Sony machines targeted and priced for business use), so they were practically a non-existing thing, unlike the MSX1 which were sold in many home electronics stores. I did have the SVI-738 with VDP2, but I didn't add the VRAM and new ROMs. Only a few hard-core enthusiasts bought MSX2 machines from the Netherlands or something. Everybody else, including me, went to either Amiga, Atari ST, or later on PC.

So for me, making demos for MSX1 computers is the main thing. Smile It's not so much about nostalgia, it's finding out what _could_ have been done with the machines I used to have back then. And it's just so much fun to make this simple old machine do wacky stuff. Of course it's also fun to use fancy newer MSX2 machines, which were just a dream beyond my reach back on the 1980s. My Philips NMS-8255 is like a Rolls-Royce... though normal people see it just as an old bulky computer. Big smile

By Huey

Prophet (2675)

Huey's picture

30-05-2011, 11:43

There is only one remedy for this MSX2 (and up) demand; Someone just has to start coding.
It is of no use to convince coders to make your ideas/wishes. They are coding the things they want to make.

Coding for MSX is very easy if you give it a real try. But in the end; You'll probably have more fun coding for MSX1 in the beginning Wink

Personally I am VERY glad that the MSX1 and PSG are finally getting the attention that they deserve. AND I really like bananas (to eat).
One promise. After this years MSXdev I will continue coding for MSX2. But don't expect mind-blowing-system-pushed-till-extreme-and-fancy-eye-candy material. Just games with nice game-play.

(please don't contact me to start any projects or features. I already have my to do list for the next 10 years)Hannibal

By yzi

Champion (444)

yzi's picture

30-05-2011, 14:13

There is only one remedy for this MSX2 (and up) demand; Someone just has to start coding.
It is of no use to convince coders to make your ideas/wishes. They are coding the things they want to make.

Exactly! Smile I don't understand why I should spend my little spare time (and money) doing stuff that I don't find fun or interesting. Turbo-R machines are pretty expensive... and so obscure that they don't make sense for me. It's a bit like Sinclair QL - maybe an interesting machine, but I never even touched one when they were new.

I'm waiting for someone to make a killer native R800 Turbo-R demo. It would be interesting to see if it could have kicked the Amiga 1200's butt! Nyyrikki made some nice BASIC stuff, but anyone else? I'm definitely not going to learn R800 assembly and buy a Turbo-R for that though.

By Manuel

Ascended (18133)

Manuel's picture

30-05-2011, 16:23

R800 assembly is Z80 assembly plus a handful of extra instructions. And the instructions are 4-6 times faster... that's basically the difference, so anyone with Z80 skills can do it. And on a turboR you always have a V9958, PCM, etc. There is one turboR demo: The Swiss Demo. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoWbKPkulHI

And yes, it would be very nice if people would make more turboR demos, exactly as you said :) Just saying the step isn't that big.

Huey: I really like your attitude, keep it up :) Looking very much forward to new MSX games with great gameplay.

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