Looking for cheap monitor solution for msx2+ with rgb output

Resident (60)

13-10-2015, 15:07

Looking for cheap monitor solution for msx2+ with rgb output. Do you guys recommend any cheap used monitor that supports 15 kh rgb input ?

I have a modern pc with a modern monitor, is there a cheap solution to make it support msx rgb output.

Thanks,

By cklayman

Champion (294)

13-10-2015, 15:26

If I am not mistaken msxpro had a list of rgb-compatible monitors.

By Manuel

Ascended (19308)

13-10-2015, 20:22

Just the usual Philips VS0080/CM8833 and the likes will work perfectly.

By MustafaG

Resident (60)

13-10-2015, 21:11

Thanks!
How do these compare to the old LCD like syncmaster 170 or 150 in image quality. They are cheaper and easier to find here in the united atates.

How about commadore monitors? Do you recommended a specific model? Its really hard to find Phillips here and the shipping from Europe is too costy.

By Manuel

Ascended (19308)

13-10-2015, 21:35

Of course they're CRT... Commodore 1084 with RGB in should also be fine, they're practically the same, as far as I know.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6033)

13-10-2015, 21:38

If you want to talk about image quality at all, you should definitely forget all LCD monitors and similar. They are great for movies & PC, but absolute crap when used together with older computers.

By Grauw

Ascended (10711)

13-10-2015, 23:20

As for flat panel displays, in Europe any LCD TV (either big or monitor-sized) with SCART input can be connected, and that connection is still fairly commonly present. Don’t know if any LCD TVs in the US come with SCART or RGB inputs.

Be sure to turn off all image optimisation and to select the game mode if it has one, and it depends on the TV how good the image quality is. E.g. my big TV works quite fine but my small monitor-sized TV still tries to do smoothing which results in small motion artifacts. (Both are Samsung.)

By Wild_Penguin

Hero (644)

14-10-2015, 00:44

In my own (limited of course) personal experience, most problems arise from de-interlacing. Game mode (and disabling all image "optimizations" from the flat panel that are available for disablation) is a must. But the problem of presenting interlaced content on a display that was never designed for it, still remains. Some TVs / flat monitors do it less badly than others.

But on topic: One alternative is to use a SCART-to-HDMI converter. They are not cheap, though, and still not an optimal solution. Second, I think on the msxpro site there are solutions to make a SCART to VGA converter? There are problems with the sync ranges, but I believe some of the adapters upscale the resolution (which means it shuld work with more monitors)?

I'm fairly certain that sometime in the near future, they will have phased out all SCART connectors from new flat panels. So a solution is needed for retro computing in Europe, then, too.

Also, I agree that a CRT would be optimal - but sometimes using a CRT is not viable. For example, I don't have room for one (currently) - if I had, I would probably own one and use it. Also, sometimes even if there would be room, there may be some other person(s) that don't appreciate the bulky CRT...

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3645)

14-10-2015, 01:10

AFAIK, SCART was mostly restricted to Europe. In the Americas it was seen only on professional equipment and very few top-of-the-line CRT TV sets from Philips (probably imported).

But Component-Video (aka YPbPr) (*1) is present in the majority of TV sets (either CRT, LCD, LED, etc) built since 2000. There are also many PC monitors that feature Component-Video inputs.

*1: Not to be confused with Composite-Video, aka CVBS

Component-Video image quality is arguably the same as RGB, and the difference lies in the color encoding used by each standard.

A simple converter can be used to translate the color encoding from one standard to another. Right now, the only solution I can recommend is this SCART-RGB to Component-Video converter from the eBay.

I bought one myself, and this is a quick review:

Pros:
- It's completely analog. This means it adds no delay to the image, nor tries any funny "image enhancement" that would only blur the image or add artifacts.
- It's cheap. Other solutions are usually cost 10 times more.

Cons:
- Being fully analog and discrete, it requires manual adjustment on the 1st use to get the color conversion calibrated.

As a help for other with their calibration, I created quick reference guide for the internal adjustments, and published it in my site:

MSXpro and myself have joined forces to design a new converter, based on a TV-Encoder chip, that won't require any calibration. But that will take a while to be completed. This is why the eBay converter is still the only affordable solution.