Use msx floppies on PC

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By msx4ever,com

Resident (47)

msx4ever,com's picture

27-10-2020, 13:16

@Wolverine_nl Calling me a trol? And you write that it is easy to link openMSX with icons? In 2 sentences? I am a trol?

By Meits

Scribe (6039)

Meits's picture

27-10-2020, 13:16

msx4ever,com wrote:

Meits wrote

Quote:

msx4ever,com: I doubt you have a clear idea of what openMSX is. openMSX is a near perfect emulator and yet you try to tear that down. I don't understand your reasons.

I know what MSX is and what there is to emulate. I never tear down openMSX, but for common people it isn't usable, is that tearing down?
Even Lex Lechz calls openMSX and catapult difficult to use for ordinary people.

What you did in your previous posts had a lot of tearing down in it.

Quote:

On an MSX diskettes are VERY important and an MSX emmulator must be able to emulate that too.
With RuMSX I can put one floppy after another in the floppy drive as if the PC is an MSX.
In my opinion, an MSX emulator that cannot do that is a much more mid-level emulator.

You are being very subjective there. It is you who thinks diskettes are very important. A big deal of the current MSX users do not use physical diskettes anymore due to their unreliability and utter slowness. The same dsk images you can use in openMSX are being used on real machines. Be it with a Megaflashrom or a Gotek device.
You know that openMSX runs on virtually any modern system. None of them had a diskdrive built in for almost two decades. That's for reasons. But if it's so important for you to handle slow, unreliable diskettes of over twenty (maybe even thirty) years old you could place a feature request in stead of kicking the developers in the nuts with your rants.
So ok, RuMSX supports the pc's diskdrive. Your computer has a diskdrive. But where do you connect your MSX joystick, MSX printer, MSX cartridge or MSX datarecorder? If you want MSX, have an MSX.

Quote:

openMSX is likely to be of great value to developers and people who know Linux and Unix and can write code.
MSX is never intended for developers and linux and unix.

Coders get some extra treats when using openMSX. They can do their work way faster nowadays than they could've ever imagined back in the day. But those are only extras. The core of the emulator is as great for any other user. The only thing the end user has to do is find (or dump) their system rom files to emulate any MSX computer they want (not just a generic one). What I've seen on your site is that you only got to the c-bios point. So you haven't even seen any of it. Yet you judge.
I fail to see why you keep on mentioning linux and unix. The coders are more linux users, but their user base isn't. You don't need to know one thing about linux or unix if you want to run openMSX on a windows computer. So what's the point you want to make?

Quote:

My reason is that msx.org should have more of an eye for RuMSX and maybe other emulators instead of just openMSX
My reason is that msx.org should have more of an eye for common people instead of specialists in programming and develloping.

msx.org is not disregarding any other emulator. openMSX is just discussed way more. That's only because of its popularity. You're free to open RuMSX threads. Just don't expect the whole comunity to join the conversation.
openMSX is still updated in very high frequency to reach perfection in any aspect. None of the other emulators comes close to that level of group dedication. Most of them are one man jobs being maintained when they feel like and some are left as is when the coder lost interest. They got stuck to the point the coder was at that time. I'm not sure where RuMSX fits in there, but blueMSX is a popular emulator which is an example of it. (dvik: if I'm wrong, I'll buy you a beer)

To round things up:
You're free to not like something. Just ask yourself if it's worth the energy to make a fuzz about it, or try to stay with your point when you're the only one with that point of view.
Not liking something doesn't always have to be fact based, but if you use facts as reasons, be sure they're right.

If you want to, I'm willing to help you set-up openMSX the right way (so no c-bios). You will have to live with not being able to use diskettes, but the rest of your experience will be very good.
I remember how I failed to see the use of the Compact Flash interface when it was released. I came back to that when I bought one after most of my old diskettes were worn out.

By msx4ever,com

Resident (47)

msx4ever,com's picture

27-10-2020, 13:27

@eisbaer, he wrote
Just a thought. Not everyone has a floppy drive anymore, or have access to a game in its physical form. So using disk or cart images might also be the only way to enjoy, discover or re-discover the MSX software catalog.
Btw, one of the aspects of emulation is preservation.
Using your precious disks is killing them. YOU MURDERER!

Calling me a trol or even a murderer?
And I should be band?
I am promoting RuMSX, that makes me a murderer?

@wolf
I just opened ONE thread, not threads
The thread is about the use of msx floppies in emulators and i promote RuMSX
If people don't stop attacking me and call me a troll and even a murderer. Or even stop responding, I will answer them if I have the time, that's neat of me. My answer is many times smaller than what they write to me.

Stop calling me names and do not respond, if you do not want a respond back. If you want that you should talk to a tree, he wouldn't talk back. Buy Rudolf a coffee, for RuMSX or Disk Manager.

By FiXato

Scribe (1634)

FiXato's picture

27-10-2020, 13:30

msx4ever,com wrote:

Emanuel wrote:

msx4ever,com wrote:

and ask these questions to Emanuel better. On youtube I have already put some games with RuMSX with the proper sound as emanuel calls it.

his name is Manuel. Please be respectful to other persons by using their preferred names.

msx4ever,com wrote:

Me and most people

unless you have actual numbers, perhaps not generalise like this. Perhaps most people *you know*, but I think it's a bit presumptuous to talk for the majority of the MSX community that way.

msx4ever,com wrote:

An emulator that does not emulate the msx diskette drive is a lesser emulator for me and for ten year olds and ordinary people.
Also emulating the msx diskette drive is a lot better emulation and it is easier to use for ten year olds and the common man.

As pointed out several times before by several others, openMSX *does* support emulating a diskette drive. You just need the right system ROMs for it, which in part because of Free & Open Source Software principles the openMSX team cannot supply themselves with the emulator.
IMHO there is not 'study' needed to learn how and where the system ROMs go. The installer already makes clear *where* they go:
The website further explains why they are needed, how to obtain them, and once again where to place them.
Anyone who can read and follow instructions, should imho be able to do so.

If anyone feels they can improve the instructions (without outright linking to copyrighted content which isn't licensed for free distribution), they are of course more than welcome to contribute to the project with a patch or pull request.

As for reading disks:
While it's true that under Windows you can only mount the file contents of a diskette as a DSK image, and thus won't be able to use ones with various copy protections, it's my understanding that under Linux you can mount a disk device to read real disks. This is perhaps a result of the main developers not being primarily Windows developers. However, as openMSX is an open source product, those with the skills to implement MSX FDC emulation under Windows, are of course welcome to implement such a feature and submit it as a pull request to the project. Just be respectful and remember that openMSX is developed by a group of *volunteers* who work on this without monetary rewards and with their own free spare time.
Just like you won't see me faulting RuMSX for being a Windows-only application, I don't think it's fair that you are faulting openMSX for not having certain features on Windows.

A small side note: if you want to truly preserve software in their original form, then creating DMK images of them rather than DSK files, might be a better solution as these don't just replicate what files are on them.

msx4ever,com wrote:

@FiXato
Wenn I download a rom file or a dsk file, I can click on it and it will start with RuMSX, but with openMSX that seems to be impossible. RuMSX and blueMSX can launch dsk and rom files!!!

I can't see that in your links.
That is all a lot more complicated and nothing for the ordinary Windows user.

Then you clearly haven't watched the entire video, as I show in that how you can associate openMSX with .ROM files, and even launch one by just double-clicking on the file.
Though when I find the time, I will see what is necessary to add an *option* to set up file associations from within the Windows installer.

Finally, if anyone wants to repackage openMSX along with system roms and a default configuration that uses a different machine than C-BIOS, I believe that the GPLv2 license does allow for that (though I'm not too well-versed in the details of the GPLv2 license myself, so don't take just my word for it), as long as you retain the license details and can also provide source code when requested, and make clear that the system ROMs are provided by *you* and not by the openMSX project/team. Note that I am saying this as a user, not as a contributor to openMSX.
Of course the risks of supplying software for which you aren't licensed as distributor are entirely your own then, but judging by your site, and the admissions of mass-selling disks with (cracked) software, it's clear that you don't have any issues with that.

By gdx

Prophet (3809)

gdx's picture

27-10-2020, 13:46

msx4ever,com wrote:

Just a question though:

Among many others. Big smile

msx4ever,com wrote:

how do you run ROM games from the floppies?

You mean from a real drive?
On Mac, I can mount the disk images and copy the ROM inside, and mount them with OpenMSX. Then run the ROM with the same way as on real MSX. I do the same for SD or CF card by emulating an flash card interface. It is also possible to use a folder as a floppy disque drive. Even children can do it once we show them how to do.

msx4ever,com wrote:

Use cracks?

It depends on the ROMs. It's the same way on a real MSX. Well, if the drive is still working.

msx4ever,com wrote:

How do you get the proper SCC sound on Konami games then? Or prevent slowdowns that some cracks have?

As on real MSX, by inserting a emulated SCC cartridge in the right slot.

msx4ever,com wrote:

How do you run large games like SD-Snatcher or Xak or Dragon Slayer VI?
How do you run original disks that have a copy protection?

Making floppy disk images in DMK format.

msx4ever,com wrote:

Run some cracks?

No.

msx4ever,com wrote:

Do you get the proper FM sound?

FM sound is proper. (There are some differences but you have to compare with the original musics one after the other, listening carefully to realize the differences.)

msx4ever,com wrote:

Do you get the proper MSX-AUDIO and MSX-MUSIC Moonblaster stereo in the proper quality?

I don't Know I rarely use them on emulator and never on real MSX.

Whell, I stop there. Either you are a absolute beginner (dummy) or a frightful troll.

Anyway, now I have big doubts about your MSX productions. And I think I would look to the rivalling when I need new devices. You seem to know so little about the MSX.

By tfh

Prophet (2454)

tfh's picture

27-10-2020, 13:35

Wow... This is a nice thread about MSX-Emulation. LOL...

Well, I do understand msx4ever.com's remark about OpenMSX a bit. If I would give my wife a .DSK or .ROM file and told her to install RuMSX/BlueMSX & OpenMSX and get those files running, the time she would need for RuMSX & BlueMSX would be far less, and I actually doubt she would succeed in getting OpenMSX up & running with those files.
RuMSX & BlueMSX are far easier to use for the novice user.

On the other hand, I personally only have OpenMSX installed on my PC nowadays. For my quick MSX-Emulation shots I use my own site. For testing stuff, I will always go to OpenMSX. But indeed: you can feel the Unix/Linux aura surounding it. Making use of "a console" more or less says it all. But also keep in mind that most of the "old MSX-ers" are somewhat computer enthousiasts and should be able te get OpenMSX up & running which can then fullfill almost all your MSX emulation needs.

And as for the focus on real disks as being THE criteria for emulation of a real MSX? Whatever happened to cartridges & tapes? Most of the games mentioned on your site were cartridges by origin anyway ;-)

Anyway... RuMSX & BluMSX are great emulators for someone's first steps back into MSX(-Emulation). WebMSX is probably an even easier solution (Have I mentioned this great website already??? https://www.file-hunter.com/MSX/)
Once you need/want more OpenMSX is the way to go. Maybe not that userfriendly, but there is no comparison.

By FiXato

Scribe (1634)

FiXato's picture

27-10-2020, 13:38

And some final words on this topic from me:

Please consider the possible effects your harsh words towards developers (who have been providing their precious time and effort for many years free of charge!) can have on the motivation of said developers.
It would not be the first time developers have become demotivated because of negative attitude from users. Unfortunately it's primarily the negativity that's voiced, and not the praise, and it's the negativity that tends to hit the hardest.

*You* might not be a user of openMSX, but your negativity can have a demotivating effect towards its developers, and thus you might end up hurting *actual users* of the emulator who do enjoy its features.

And that's just your negativity.

Your misinformation and outright lies, and your continuation of them even when your claims have been disputed and disproven, is harmful towards the emulators in general and misleading to users in particular.

By Metalion

Paragon (1212)

Metalion's picture

27-10-2020, 13:45

Can we stop with this topic already ????
Can some admin lock the topic and ban this msx4ever guy who is a pain in the a** ?
Thanks.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9826)

wolf_'s picture

27-10-2020, 13:54

Let me repeat what I wrote earlier:

You want to use a true diskdrive in your PC for true MSX emulation: use RuMSX. The End, let the credits roll!

By FiXato

Scribe (1634)

FiXato's picture

27-10-2020, 14:22

Looks like this topic is indeed going in circles. So, with that, the topic is locked.

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