What is the right way to search for FM-Pak and its RAM?

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By mars2000you

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25-10-2021, 14:00

gdx wrote:

I read somewhere that the "internal" MSX-MUSIC could be deactivated and in this case even the ROM disappears and therefore it is no longer reactivable.

What about this FRS tool then ?

http://frs.badcoffee.info/files/OPLLOFF.ZIP

"This utility temporary disables the internal MSX-Music of the Panasonic MSX2+ and Turbo-R computers. It is meant to:

1) Allow you enjoy the PSG soundtracks of many games
2) Have the games to detect the MSX-Audio BIOS v1.3 instead of the internal MSX-Music."

By NYYRIKKI

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25-10-2021, 14:44

gdx wrote:

I read somewhere that the "internal" MSX-MUSIC could be deactivated and in this case even the ROM disappears and therefore it is no longer reactivable.

Well, close but not accurate... this is more like a ROM-mapper problem. If you fail to check the "APRL"-string and try to enable FM-PAC I/O registers on A1WX internal MSX-MUSIC you will fail and actually switch off part of the FM-ROM instead... This is pretty bad as the ROM includes also ie. CALL-command handler and therefore next CALL-command on BASIC will crash the computer... This was a real problem on some games and demos that used early MoonBlaster replayer routine that had this bug.

By gdx

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25-10-2021, 15:00

In fact, what I have read is that on a Panasonic MSX2+ FS-A1WX or FS-A1WSX, the ROM is disabled when writing a value between 7FF0h and 7FFFh.

By NYYRIKKI

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25-10-2021, 15:11

gdx wrote:

In fact, what I have read is that on a Panasonic MSX2+ FS-A1WX or FS-A1WSX, the ROM is disabled when writing a value between 7FF0h and 7FFFh.

Yes... Actually it is the bit 0 that controls if the ROM is visible (=0) or not (=1)

By ro

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25-10-2021, 15:30

Dunno if it helps, we talkaed about msx-music init in the threat just a while ago, including sources for that to happen.
https://msx.org/forum/msx-talk/development/how-to-detect-sou...

By gdx

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25-10-2021, 15:36

So as I understand it, the ROM and I/O are disableable/enableable at the same time this way on a Panasonic MSX2+ FS-F1WX or FS-A1WSX only? How do you do on the other machines to disableable/enableable the internal MSX-Music I/O?

By mars2000you

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25-10-2021, 15:56

The mentioned FRS tool is for all Panasonic MSX2+ and Turbo R computers with MSX-MUSIC rom, not only 2 models. I don't know if it can be used on Sanyo MSX2+ or a CIEL machine equipped with this rom inside.

Edit - Partial answer in the text file contained in the ZIP:

"Note: This version only supports Panasonic MSX2+/Turbo-R computers. Do not use this tool on other MSX models. Future versions are planned to support more machines.
Note2: Only Panasonic MSX2+/Turbo-R machines require this tool to be run in order to allow the MSX-Audio BIOS v1.3 to be detected. Other MSX models with built-in MSX-Music extensions don't have this problem, except maybe for the CIEL Expert-Turbo. On the CIEL Expert-Turbo, you just need to use the MSX-Audio cartridge on slot-A (which is the slot 1-0 on the MSX architecture)."

By Grauw

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25-10-2021, 16:06

gdx wrote:

So as I understand it, the ROM and I/O are disableable/enableable at the same time this way on a Panasonic MSX2+ FS-F1WX or FS-A1WSX only?

Afaik on Panasonic machines you can not disable I/O. FRS’s tool only disables the ROM so that the MSX-MUSIC is not detected, and the FM-BIOS can not be accessed. As a result software will not attempt to write I/O, even though the ports are still functional.

gdx wrote:

How do you do on the other machines to disableable/enableable the internal MSX-Music I/O?

You can’t disable the internal MSX-MUSIC I/O. The internal MSX-MUSIC is not intended to be disabled. And on the “clone” MSX-MUSIC cartridges which use APRLOPLL as well (FM-Stereo-Pak, FM-PAQ, etc.) you can not disable I/O either. It’s only possible on the original FM-PAC and maybe also Carnivore2 or GR8NET (not sure).

If you ask me why they chose to specify the internal MSX-MUSIC standard like so, it is probably to reduce the component cost of adding internal MSX-MUSIC to a minimum by avoiding the need for extra decoding and configuration registers.

By Grauw

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25-10-2021, 16:22

mars2000you wrote:

The mentioned FRS tool is for all Panasonic MSX2+ and Turbo R computers with MSX-MUSIC rom, not only 2 models. I don't know if it can be used on Sanyo MSX2+ or a CIEL machine equipped with this rom inside.

Edit - Partial answer in the text file contained in the ZIP:

"Note: This version only supports Panasonic MSX2+/Turbo-R computers. Do not use this tool on other MSX models. Future versions are planned to support more machines.
Note2: Only Panasonic MSX2+/Turbo-R machines require this tool to be run in order to allow the MSX-Audio BIOS v1.3 to be detected. Other MSX models with built-in MSX-Music extensions don't have this problem, except maybe for the CIEL Expert-Turbo. On the CIEL Expert-Turbo, you just need to use the MSX-Audio cartridge on slot-A (which is the slot 1-0 on the MSX architecture)."

In the Sony / Sanyo MSX2+ machines the MSX-MUSIC ROM is in slot 3, so a cartridge with MSX-AUDIO BIOS v1.3 will be found before the internal MSX-MUSIC FM-BIOS if slots are enumerated in order. On the Panasonic machines the MSX-MUSIC ROM is in slot 0 and will thus be found first.

This is the reason FRS’s tool is needed, it makes clever use of the ROM mapping function in Panasonic’s M60014 gate array and S1990 ASIC to disable the FM-BIOS ROM, which will allow games to detect beyond slot 0 and find the inserted cartridge’s MSX-AUDIO BIOS v1.3 instead (which emulates the FM-BIOS).

By gdx

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26-10-2021, 02:24

Grauw wrote:

And on the “clone” MSX-MUSIC cartridges which use APRLOPLL as well (FM-Stereo-Pak, FM-PAQ, etc.) you can not disable I/O either.

It's a shame that there are people who make stuff without really knowing what they're doing.

Normally, it should be possible to use 2 OPLLs at the same time thanks to the addresses 7FF4h and 7FF5h.

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