Creating pixel art

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By msd

Paragon (1372)

msd's picture

23-03-2018, 09:22

Also JPEG uses this method

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (869)

DarkSchneider's picture

23-03-2018, 09:49

NYYRIKKI wrote:

Did you know that your 4k TV uses very similar technique to display images as SC12? Due to limited bandwidth the color resolution is much smaller than B/W resolution.

It is called chroma subsampling:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

It is more content size related than bandwidth, as HDMI 2.0 should give for full uncompressed 4K@60 (i.e. games or applications). For the 4K content I have seen, the 4:2:0 is very typical.

It seems the SC12 uses 4:1:1, reasonable due to the scanline rendering method.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

23-03-2018, 15:39

And pretty much all video codecs.

Note that they all use YUV, while MSX uses YJK, which flipped the weights for G and B and is less ideal because Y no longer encodes the luminance very well (see page 12 of this thread). V9990 supports YUV as well as YJK btw.

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

29-03-2018, 22:28

when this was discussed some pages ago, I thought that it can't be done really correct.
but no, when the camera is far away, then a simple 2D zoom Y shrink is correct.

when the camera looks down in angle alpha,
shrink the people cosinus alpha and shrink the floor sinus alpha
when one looks 45 degree then both floor and people are 0.7 high

the tiles of PAL MSX have this ratio Big smile

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

09-04-2018, 09:58

Grauw wrote:

The pixel aspect ratios on a 4:3 display are (4y / 3x):

60 Hz: 1296 / 1139 = 1,138 = ~9:8
50 Hz: 1568 / 1139 = 1,377 = ~7:5

Was searching for NES dot clock, happened on some confirmation about the PAR here:

https://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=Dot_clock_rates

Quote:

Dot clock frequency: 5.37 MHz
Exact frequency: 945 / 176 MHz
Pixel aspect ratio: 1.14
"Exact" pixel aspect ratio: 8:7
Devices: The 256px display of the TMS9918 (TI-99/4A, ColecoVision, MSX, and SG-1000), its descendants (MSX2, Master System, Genesis), and other VDPs inspired by it (NES, TurboGrafx-16, Super NES), and 256px mode of the original PlayStation

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

11-05-2018, 21:52

I was looking into fonts… I already settled on it being proportional. But other questions remain, e.g. I do kind of fondly remember the huge fonts from e.g. the Xak II / Gazzel fan translation, but at the same time it also lessens the amount of text that can be shown. And anti aliasing can look nice but also blurrier than without.

I’ve done some experiments with fonts of variable sizes, different line spacings, anti aliasing, and also took pictures of them in openMSX, an IPS TFT display (through OSSC), and a CRT display, to see if that would make any significant difference.

What is easiest to read, what looks best, pros and cons, tips and tricks, suggestions, opinions? Smile

Font 1: Compact, 4 lines can be visible

Font 2: Same as font 1 with more line spacing

Font 3: Taller font

Font 4: Same as font 3 with anti aliasing

Font 5: Even bigger font

Font 6: Same as font 5 with anti aliasing

By theNestruo

Expert (111)

theNestruo's picture

11-05-2018, 22:00

Grauw wrote:

What is easiest to read, what looks best, pros and cons, tips and tricks, suggestions, opinions? Smile

In my opinion, antialias versions look blurry. As the target screen is a TV (analog, scanlines) and not a monitor (digital, squared pixels), you already have "hardware font smoothing".
I prefer your font #3, but I would try to increase the "pixel distance" between some specific letters to improve readability (for example: l and t are different by one pixel only). Also, a and o are too similar... could you try a typographic a?

By santiontanon

Paladin (834)

santiontanon's picture

11-05-2018, 22:43

Hmm, I like the more compact font 1 better. And I agree with theNestruo that the non-antialiased fonts look better!

By erpirao

Paladin (945)

erpirao's picture

11-05-2018, 22:55

santiontanon wrote:

Hmm, I like the more compact font 1 better. And I agree with theNestruo that the non-antialiased fonts look better!

agree.

By Grauw

Ascended (8457)

Grauw's picture

12-05-2018, 00:05

theNestruo wrote:

In my opinion, antialias versions look blurry.

I do think so too, but I also felt it actually improved legibility for me… My eyes read it more naturally, because the pixels connect together better, whilst without AA it’s fairly noisy so it strains my eyes more. Do you kinda see what I mean, or is it just me?

Btw if anyone has any comments on my AA technique I’d be happy to hear it as well. E.g. on the diagonal lines I anti aliased both sides (e.g. see the w), but maybe it’s better if I did it on one side. Or maybe a drop shadow will achieve mostly the same effect?

Hm. I don’t dislike it. It actually gives the text a bit more “body”…

theNestruo wrote:

As the target screen is a TV (analog, scanlines) and not a monitor (digital, squared pixels), you already have "hardware font smoothing".

For me the target is definitely not CRT only though, they’ve got small screens and are bulky, and a lot of people don’t use them to play MSX games anymore (I’m one of them ;)). Also CRTs vary in sharpness, so how much “natural blur” you get really depends on whether you’ve got a low-end or a high-end one. I think the MSX RGB signal output (see OSSC shots) is the base line for me, but ideally it would look good on everything, which is why I took so many screenshots ;).

(p.s. Actually I think anti aliasing looks better when blurred, sharp AA is a bit too distinct.)

theNestruo wrote:

I prefer your font #3, but I would try to increase the "pixel distance" between some specific letters to improve readability (for example: l and t are different by one pixel only). Also, a and o are too similar... could you try a typographic a?

I see what you mean, although I’m not necessarily thrilled by the execution :).

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