Creating pixel art

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By DarkSchneider

Paladin (869)

DarkSchneider's picture

21-03-2018, 08:50

Seems more correct is to talk about SC10 instead SC11, out of BASIC they are the same and the behavior is really the SC10.

That color patching feature looks pretty handy and could do the trick. And having 2^16 instead 2^17 colors probably no one will ever notice. It seems that SC10 is really the only high color mode usable for games, and using the same amount of VRAM than SC8, clearly much better.

The most challenging thing is sharing 16 color palette with sprites, the 16 color layer tiles px must match with a full-color JYK "background". Having some key colors like "black" and "white" (maybe not pure) can help a lot, for defining outlines accurately in example.

Also seems the currently released or existing work (on games) does not make use of this feature.

Personal thoughts: SC10 with the IMO real MSX2+ design, this is faster CPU and faster bus CPU-VDP thanks to the WAIT signal, and storing gfx data into RAM, could have given great results for games considering is a (cheap) computer.
Because the main problem is if for the (false released) base MSX2+ with Z80@3,58 and wait circuitry you can afford that CPU loss as you could require it for the game logic.

By msd

Paragon (1372)

msd's picture

21-03-2018, 11:13

IIRC in basic screen 10 you only can use the 16 palette colors and screen 11 is the combination. Everybody always takes about screen 11. (and yes it is only a basic thing. The VDP doesn't have a 10 or 11 mode. And even the yjk/yae is setting for color decoding on top of the screen 8 mode.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5382)

NYYRIKKI's picture

21-03-2018, 11:35

msd wrote:

IIRC in basic screen 10 you only can use the 16 palette colors and screen 11 is the combination. Everybody always takes about screen 11. (and yes it is only a basic thing. The VDP doesn't have a 10 or 11 mode. And even the yjk/yae is setting for color decoding on top of the screen 8 mode.

Actually BASIC is relatively user friendly... Normally when you change screen mode the VRAM page will be cleared, but when you change between SCREEN 10/11/12 the mode is switched without clearing. This means that you can put SCREEN 10/11-statements around ie. LINE-command if you want it to be handled differently... Naturally if you change from SCREEN 12 to SCREEN 10/11 some minor details will be lost in conversion.

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3068)

sd_snatcher's picture

21-03-2018, 22:17

Grauw wrote:

Really nice stuff, FRS!

Thanks! Smile

Guessing by the positive feedback here, can I assume it's worth to release these and the rest of the set as a collection then? There are around 300 images in the package.

Quote:

By the way, as for the screen 10-12 pictures, did you generate them as they are shown in emulators and on RGB screens, or did you use the S-Video output filter that was discussed in an earlier thread?

The images were decoded as pure RGB, like RGB monitors and emulators do.

Quote:

One realisation I had today is that you can actually flip that thought around; don’t have screen 12 with a few patches of palette colours overlaid to fix it up. Rather, make a screen 5 image and “poke holes” in it in places where you want more details or colours.

Yes, it works fine that way too. For an example of this technique, take a look at the following file in the MSX Pixel Art Collection Vol.1: HOUSE.SCA.

By Grauw

Ascended (8442)

Grauw's picture

22-03-2018, 00:04

sd_snatcher wrote:

Guessing by the positive feedback here, can I assume it's worth to release these and the rest of the set as a collection then? There are around 300 images in the package.

I think so Smile

sd_snatcher wrote:
Quote:

By the way, as for the screen 10-12 pictures, did you generate them as they are shown in emulators and on RGB screens, or did you use the S-Video output filter that was discussed in an earlier thread?

The images were decoded as pure RGB, like RGB monitors and emulators do.

Cool, so that last SC12 picture is literally what most of us will see, no kind of smoothing... That’s pretty good then, with no real artefacts visible.

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (869)

DarkSchneider's picture

22-03-2018, 08:26

For images SC12 is pretty good, not so good for accurate pixel art like tiles. In that case SC10 seems better.

By Parn

Champion (418)

Parn's picture

22-03-2018, 10:55

I'm late to the party but I'd also like to leave my positive feedback. I'm looking forward more pixel art!

By Manuel

Ascended (15744)

Manuel's picture

22-03-2018, 22:17

Isn't sc12 also very suitable for video? Smile (EVA anyone? Looks really fantastic...)

By DarkSchneider

Paladin (869)

DarkSchneider's picture

23-03-2018, 07:51

Manuel wrote:

Isn't sc12 also very suitable for video? Smile (EVA anyone? Looks really fantastic...)

Yes, for anything image-scanning related. It was designed for that.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5382)

NYYRIKKI's picture

23-03-2018, 09:20

Did you know that your 4k TV uses very similar technique to display images as SC12? Due to limited bandwidth the color resolution is much smaller than B/W resolution.

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