Hype question

Page 2/4
1 | | 3 | 4

By Huey

Prophet (2644)

Huey's picture

23-09-2010, 21:58

MOAM went MSX2.....

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

24-09-2010, 15:18


.....for more sensible reason, I guess that maybe he was forced to change other colour background to black as it was a space game and didn´t bothered to remove now unnecessary black sprites as being too pissed off? Or then he himself didn´t liked too light colours of MSX, as except black, there aren´t no DARK colours and then he cursed several times, changed background to black and left those damn good looking shadows there not wanting to remove them anymore and said game is finished and that´s it. Those were my guesses.

The shadow design rocks, on the player ship and on the gray grid.
But there are other things like the worms and the balls which I would have done blob style, with e.g. color 9 + 8 or color 3 + 2.

But there was this sprite editor screenshot with all sprite patterns used. so there is another issue: 2-color sprites need 2 times pattern!
he had no pattern left, the black sprites are same pattern as the others. so he is actually forced to use this style of 2-color engine where blackness is always lower priority.

no good when sprite design is limited by vram, one can cache stuff from main RAM with little speed penalty.

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

24-09-2010, 15:27

MOAM went MSX2.....
what a pity, I saw a beautiful screen 2 screenshot, just keep an MSX 1 version,
let the sprites happily flicker, doesnt matter.

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5415)

JohnHassink's picture

24-09-2010, 15:34

MOAM went MSX2.....
what a pity, I saw a beautiful screen 2 screenshot, just keep an MSX 1 version,
let the sprites happily flicker, doesnt matter.

Don't worry Smile - the MOAM MSX1 engine was as good as complete, and it would be a waste if we'd never use it to create some nice MSX1 game in the future. But it would not be MOAM.
MOAM went MSX2 since MSX1 wouldn't do it justice anymore.

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

24-09-2010, 16:13

Don't worry Smile - the MOAM MSX1 engine was as good as complete, and it would be a waste if we'd never use it to create some nice MSX1 game in the future. But it would not be MOAM.
MOAM went MSX2 since MSX1 wouldn't do it justice anymore.

But I do worry Smile2 About the lovely screen 2 gfx. The engine was not wasted, but still the game is wasted for MSX 1.

Another thing, I cannot resist thinking that: ooh, the lovely trees in the blue sky are in MSX 1 smoothscrollable format Wink and the floor too Smile

But what is the reason to dump MSX 1?

- sprites: just let them flicker, much better than no game at all
- palette: no more dark blue sky, still the graphics rock

By JohnHassink

Ambassador (5415)

JohnHassink's picture

24-09-2010, 16:20

Well, to quote myself from earlier:

Are there any other things, except the obvious sprite and colour differences, where MSX1 is holding you back?
Yeah, especially in the gameplay. We can put more HW based enemies etc. on the same row now.

And apart from that, the difference is mainly graphical.
Bigger animations with less cpu time, color transitions (lava, fire, lightning...), etc.
Sprites look waaaaaaaaaay better now.

Besides, the visual scenes will now be screen 4/5 hybrids which allow more spectacular scenes. Wink

Also, there seemed to be some type of MSX1 on which the original MOAM wouldn't run.
Besides that, I'm sure Huey wouldn't just throw those sc2 gfx away.. Wink

By Huey

Prophet (2644)

Huey's picture

24-09-2010, 16:28

There are 2 reasons:

1- The game will not run on all MSX1 computers due to the hybrid screenmode we use. <- This is the main reason.
2- multicolor sprites on msx2 allows much much more detail. I made some monochrome sprites. But no one could recognize them.

Don't worry. The engine is screen4 now. The only change is new colors (some darker Wink ) larger animated bosses. More detail on sprites. All gfx will be reused.

The flickering was never an issue. I do not mind that at all.

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

24-09-2010, 17:06

may I be pedantic please? Smile2

all explanations like "We can put more HW based enemies etc. on the same row now." fall in the following category:
MSX 1 is a screen 4 without palette and 4 mono sprites per scanline - no news here.

but what is a screen4/5 hybrid? I can think of two things:

1. screen 4 gfx scroll on screen 5. no news for MSX 1 here. screen 4 gfx are screen 2 gfx with finer palette.

2. a screen 5 infopanel. infopanels shall look nice and are otherwise very static and though untechnical.

so make a 256 color infopanel. and for MSX 1 just run it thru screen 2 converter.
the result is no shame but much better than no MSX 1 game at all. oh those lovely trees...

By Huey

Prophet (2644)

Huey's picture

24-09-2010, 17:37

I think I wasn't clear. We use an unofficial hybrid screenmode on screen 2. So we could never make it work on all MSX1 models.

Staying on MSX1 would have been the easy way. MSX2 the hard way (need more work).

I'm glad you like the gfx. You're even tempting me to revert to MSX1 again.........

By hit9918

Prophet (2868)

hit9918's picture

24-09-2010, 17:53

I think I wasn't clear. We use an unofficial hybrid screenmode on screen 2. So we could never make it work on all MSX1 models.

The only hybrid I know is masking the patterntable and then the sprites run wild - and only reason I know to go single charset is smoothscroller? I am poking in the dark because I dont know which mode is used for which reason.


Staying on MSX1 would have been the easy way. MSX2 the hard way (need more work).
I'm glad you like the gfx. You're even tempting me to revert to MSX1 again.........

It would be no shame if MSX 1 mode of a MSX 2 game got less nice sprites.
Or same multicolor sprites with more flicker. Still the screen 2 gfx are beauty.

Page 2/4
1 | | 3 | 4