SIDplayer for MSX di NYYR1KK1

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Por PingPong

Prophet (3922)

Imagen del PingPong

11-05-2010, 16:50

@NYYRIKKI: the 6510 emulation works by interpreting 6510 opcodes one at time or you do a sort of dynamic recompilation?
When the code tries to use some of the SID features like two noise generators, saw tooth, or ADSR or ring modulation what level of emulation you do? Just skip those features or what?
thx for your replay.
Another cool feature would be the ability to generate a .AY file with, of course, only the channel tone frequencies, allowing to manually arrange with a PSG tool

Por MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

Imagen del MäSäXi

11-05-2010, 18:57

Nyyrikki: Is the sidplay 0.3 newest version or not?

(yeah, you said it doesn´t affect to sound quality)

Here´s first comment:

I tried it on 8235 (or actually still trying RIGHT NOW!!LOL!) and selected Rob Hubbard´s COMMANDO (main theme) .... hmmmm.... that sounded quite...... how I could say how MUCH there was missing from that song, but I LIKED IT!!!!! LOL! LOL!

I am wondering, because your Last Ninja 2 examples sounded really good.... everybody there, just get Rob Hubbard´s original COMMANDO (hint: try "sidfind" on google) and play it first on PC´s Sidplay. Then try same tune on MSX´s Sidplay. You´ll hear what I mean. Smile

Nope, I have no bad feelings for your work, Nyyrikki! I am fascinated, even if ALL SID TUNES will hear same way as this Commando main theme. Smile

THANKS A LOT!!!!!!!! MY NYYRIKKI C=64-->MSX HERO!!!! Big smile

Por MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

Imagen del MäSäXi

11-05-2010, 19:25

Here´s second and last comment for today:

I down... got Last Ninja 2 and I am trying it right now on 8235.... I´ll try same ones what were used in nyyrikki´s video.... that sounds hellishly gooooooooooooooooDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (just like in your april videoBig smile)

So I guess, it´s because MSX´s Sidplay (and MSX´s PSG actually) cannot play all those things what Rob Hubbard done on Commodore 64. Last Ninja 2 is not Hubbard´s song. I read long long long ago (in good old times) that Rob Hubbard used his own self-made packing method for his tunes, maybe that makes his Commando tune (and maybe others too) so difficult to emulate on MSX.

By the way, last ninja 2´s song number 10 ended playing "one tone" endlessly (or at least many seconds, until I quitted it...) Song number 11 got mad after 30 seconds or 1 minute (about) and started to play rubbish....

song 12 doesn´t start at all.... Eek! (but it worked on nyyrikki-video)

by the way, listen last ninja 2´s song number 2, it will soon start to play much like Commodore 64´s "effect", (i mean those drums and something like that noiseSmile) you´ll know what I mean, when you hear it!!!! LOL! How Great!!!!!!!!!!!! Big smile Big smile LOL!

bye now... Smile

Por boomlinde

Resident (54)

Imagen del boomlinde

11-05-2010, 20:30

I think that if you have emulation fixed up well enough to play a tune it should be able to handle unpacking of whatever strange format the song is, too -- a SID file is basically just two C64 routines (one "init" program and one interrupt program that is run at 50 Hz (normally)). If there's something kooky about a song it's more likely a problem with the sound chip downgrade. The SID has built-in ADSR envelopes, more waveforms, a filter, ring modulation and oscillator synchronization, which the MSX PSG's lack (by hardware, at least)

Por boomlinde

Resident (54)

Imagen del boomlinde

11-05-2010, 20:45

Nyrikki, could you point us to some PSIDs? Sample-less PSIDs are not that easy to come by, it seems...

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3558)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

12-05-2010, 02:50

Yes, maybe some day in the future... I tried also emulating attack, decay, sustain and release with CPU, but that made it a bit too heavy as the CPU emulation required quite a lot of time. Waves with SCC should be anyway easy and light to emulate.

What about an command-line option to enable the ADSR emulation on CPU? This could be used by owners of MSX with turbos. Those probably will have enough CPU power to play it. Smile

Por boomlinde

Resident (54)

Imagen del boomlinde

12-05-2010, 12:20

I found a tiny archive of PSIDs on aminet: aminet.net/package/mods/chip/ms99-sid.

So yeah, good work on this! The quality is better than I'd imagined.

Por MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

Imagen del MäSäXi

12-05-2010, 18:22

psids can be found from hvsc site too... it was little link called "here" if I remember it correctly and it was meant for Amiga users, but they worked on MSX too... Smile

Anyway, first tests I made with SIDs (without P) and they worked too. (thought not every one)

If someone here can tell the difference between PSID and SID, is there any sound quality difference? I have mostly downloaded just SIDs for this msx sidplay testing, and they mostly work, though speech samples are not heared of course and some sampled tunes wont start at all (or maybe they start, but you can´t hear anything because samples cannot be converted as they should be?) oh... mega-apocalypse claims "rsid-files are not supported" and tetris (mirrorsoft) claimed some other error....

anyway,

MSX2 bombjack owners should testplay BOMBJACK, sixth tune is wonderfully working title screen tune (loads it automatically if you don´t give tune number), so you can hear what you miss on your msx2 cartridge or disk. Wink (nope, i have nothing against good msx2 arrangements of arcade bombjack tunesSmile i am just used to commodore 64 conversion´s musicsSmile) and 1st tune is ingame tune (for jarre fans....Big smile)

Another one to test:

Ghost´n´Goblins main theme is good, though sadly some notes are played wrongly here and there, BUT PLEASE CHECK TUNE NUMBER 1, IT SOUNDS LIKE STRAIGHT FROM COMMIEDORE 64!! Big smile (ok, plays in very little different tone, I didn´t compared original, as I remember original tune in my headSmile) I don´t mind if ghost´n´goblins will have both arcade and commie64 musics!! LOL!

Then some good ones:

Commando 86 - it sounds just like it could have been, if it has published for msx and some good musician had done music to it! Smile

Chimera - As I expected before testing, this conversion sounds very very good!! Smile

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5951)

Imagen del NYYRIKKI

17-05-2010, 14:20

@NYYRIKKI: the 6510 emulation works by interpreting 6510 opcodes one at time or you do a sort of dynamic recompilation?
When the code tries to use some of the SID features like two noise generators, saw tooth, or ADSR or ring modulation what level of emulation you do? Just skip those features or what?
thx for your replay.

interpreting 6510 opcodes one at a time... From SID only features currently emulated are frequency and key on/off. No Volume, no modulation, no filters etc. Noise channel is used when noise is selected as tone.

Another cool feature would be the ability to generate a .AY file with, of course, only the channel tone frequencies, allowing to manually arrange with a PSG tool

Try to run it on fMSX, it can output .AY files IIRC.

Por Manuel

Ascended (18961)

Imagen del Manuel

17-05-2010, 20:05

openMSX can do it as well with the

psg_log

command.

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