MSX 2 to buy

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Por AxelStone

Prophet (2965)

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30-04-2021, 08:42

Manuel wrote:

Still, there are bugs and inaccuracies in all emulations, including FPGA's...

I know, a few time ago there was an open topic related to this. But in the practice these inaccuracies are inappreciable, I mean, in Zemmix Neo and clones the 99,99% of the existing software works with perfect accuracy to the original. As someone commented in the thread, if the existing software works with accuracy, why to worry about the possible inaccuracies?

In the end, it's a matter of preferences - money spend Smile . Emulators = cheapest solution, but more different to the original machine. FPGA = mid solution with (almost) perfect accuracy to the original. Original = most expensive solution and the most vulnerable (old machines need maintenance).

Por Haze

Expert (117)

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30-04-2021, 10:15

AxelStone wrote:

In the end, it's a matter of preferences - money spend Smile . Emulators = cheapest solution, but more different to the original machine. FPGA = mid solution with (almost) perfect accuracy to the original. Original = most expensive solution and the most vulnerable (old machines need maintenance).

Not to mention: availability! Aside from the costs associated with importing, I'm glad to see many replies here also take that into account. Because living in mainland Europe or Japan can make a world of difference, compared to someone in for example the U.S. Not to mention the market itself; some times your dream machine just ain't readily available because no one's selling a unit. In such cases, I too believe that if you know what you're getting yourself into an FPGA MSX implementation ain't such a bad choice at all, given how compatible they are! Big smile

In fact with all the differences between genuine MSX machines themselves, inaccuracies in FPGA emulation almost feel to me like just another "MSX model". Wink

Por AxelStone

Prophet (2965)

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30-04-2021, 15:04

Haze wrote:

In fact with all the differences between genuine MSX machines themselves, inaccuracies in FPGA emulation almost feel to me like just another "MSX model". Wink

Exactly, FPGA is just another MSX model Smile . MSX itself is an standard with hundreds of models and no 2 are equals. You have even models with compatible chips, not originals, like Philips MSX that use PSG clone designed by Philips, instead the original one. Not to mention all models using MSX Engine, that can be considered FPGA itself.

If you think about FPGA like "another MSX model", is the closest assessment to reality. In fact 1ChipMSX was the rebirth of the system.

Por hamlet

Scribe (3595)

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30-04-2021, 15:17

AxelStone wrote:

Not to mention all models using MSX Engine, that can be considered FPGA itself.
...
In fact 1ChipMSX was the rebirth of the system.

I would second that.
Today, starting with OCMs is the only rational method.
Machines that are already 30 years old are still used for nostalgic reasons, but you only get the feeling of owning a new MSX with an OCM clone.

Por sdsnatcher73

Paragon (1995)

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30-04-2021, 17:52

I can see your point but I disagree. An MSX old-timer with an internal or external keyboard just gives quite a different experience than an OCM or derivative with a PS/2 keyboard. I personally enjoy these old-timers much more than an OCM, and to me it has nothing to do with the inaccuracies (which are not very apparent in every day use).

Por opasch

Rookie (21)

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02-05-2021, 22:16

first of all I'd like to thank everyone of you for this contribution. I didn't expect so many replies. I live in Italy and obviously here the PHILIPS MSX models, either MSX 1 or MSX 2, had the lion share at the time and they still have. You basically find only PHILIPS models around but they are rather expensive. People are charging 250€ for a VG-8235 or NMS 8220. I am very tempted by the MSXVR and what it can do but I'd also like to own a real MSX2. Do you think it could be possible to find something for less than 250€ around?

Por sdsnatcher73

Paragon (1995)

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03-05-2021, 06:28

Well I think it depends on your usage scenario and what you are willing to do yourself which MSX2 will be best for you. If you will be buying a multipurpose cart like a Carnivore2 or MegaFlashROM SCC+ SD and willing to accept you cannot play 100% of the disk games an MSX without a diskdrive makes a lot of sense. Disk emulation in SofaRun or Nextor can not give 100% guarantee on all disk games. So having a (double sided) diskdrive or Gotek can cover those that don’t work. Price also depends on the amount of repair already done/still needed.

I currently have a Sanyo PHC-23J which sells for €200 excl. shipping, it is very similar to the NMS8220 but has no annoying firmware (so no keys to press during boot). I have a Philips VG8235 that works except for the diskdrive, you can replace it with a 720kB model or a Gotek but it is not trivial (but also not impossible), that could sell for €200 as well. I will get a Philips VG8230 and VG8235 with Gotek already installed (they are being done right now but due to enhanced lockdown in Germany I am not sure when I will be able to pick them up). The install (done by Alexey) is really nice (see photo below). Obviously (I hope) these will be a bit more expensive due to the parts and labor invested into them. We are looking at €250 (VG8230) or €275 (VG8235). There are more options (Japanese MSX2 with or without diskdrive, with or without repairs) but it also depends on what you like, need and what your budget is.

I hope this gives you some options to consider. I must say it is getting hard to keep prices low (and to some these are already not considered low). So €250 for a VG8235 in my opinion is currently not extremely high (assuming they work well). Competition in both NL and JP will surely drive prices up further in the coming year.

Por AxelStone

Prophet (2965)

Imagen del AxelStone

03-05-2021, 10:02

opasch wrote:

first of all I'd like to thank everyone of you for this contribution. I didn't expect so many replies. I live in Italy and obviously here the PHILIPS MSX models, either MSX 1 or MSX 2, had the lion share at the time and they still have. You basically find only PHILIPS models around but they are rather expensive. People are charging 250€ for a VG-8235 or NMS 8220. I am very tempted by the MSXVR and what it can do but I'd also like to own a real MSX2. Do you think it could be possible to find something for less than 250€ around?

Before buying a VR I would suggest to you to understand what it's exactly and how it works.

Por gdx

Enlighted (4498)

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03-05-2021, 13:45

AxelStone wrote:

MSX itself is an standard with hundreds of models and no 2 are equals. You have even models with compatible chips, not originals, like Philips MSX that use PSG clone designed by Philips, instead the original one. Not to mention all models using MSX Engine, that can be considered FPGA itself.

If you think about FPGA like "another MSX model", is the closest assessment to reality. In fact 1ChipMSX was the rebirth of the system.

It is still better to have a real MSX for several reasons. Having an original material is more peaceful. Also, the case and the keyboard will not be approximate. Then the problems encountered on an OCMs are not the same in general so it is not just another MSX model. If you plan to develop you need a real MSX and especially if you are developing for MSX1 or Turbo R. You will also need a good emulator with debugger in this case.

OCMs are nice solution if you want play cartridge and use different devices. Many work like on a real MSX. Although not sure for sound extensions. A lot of people have problems with them.

Machines based on Raspberry Pi or other of the same kind are more distant from real MSXs. There is its own system which starts before starting the MSX. It takes several seconds. This added at the MSX starting time, it can reach up to a minute. And if we add Sofarun for example, it can take a long time. The MSXVR may be interesting for its debugger if it is really efficient. The rest does not concern the MSX so that doesn't interest me but I understand that it can interest people. I advise you to wait and see for the MSXVR. Anyway, you won't have a choice because the deliveries are late.

Por Briqunullus

Champion (359)

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03-05-2021, 14:58

Or, if you're up for a challenge, build yourself an Omega MSX.

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