Why low interest in V9938 / MSX2+ Software?

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Por Accumulator

Supporter (16)

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10-08-2018, 05:04

I am watching at the side line and I noticed there is a lot of members programming:
-> MSX1
-> V9918/V9928
-> MSX with OPLL
-> MSX with V9990
-> MSX 2 with all extra xtenders available..
-> Turbo-R

Where is the MSX2+ guys?
There are so many routines possible with the extra screens, hybrid screen 10 (my favo), the VDP 26/27 registers.
What is the reason no one is trying to burn this mtf in possibilities...?

(still having a demo here infinished in screen 10, with scroller, bouncer,colorwaves and colorfull earth on top.)
Screen 10 is so powerfull...

Who knows the reason????

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Por Dolphin101546015

Resident (38)

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10-08-2018, 06:23

You mean 9958?

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5396)

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10-08-2018, 08:11

I think it is because it is so hard to "push break" on MSX2+ specs... If you do MSX2 program, you do MSX2 program, but if you start wondering about using V9958 features you are taking a small step, but you also tend to take the other small step to go all the way up to MSX tR because there you waits more powerful CPU, always available FM-sound, DRAM mode, guaranteed more RAM etc. Also there are practically only two MSX tR models so you pretty much get away from compatibility testing. (That is actually pretty boring stuff.)

So, in other words I would like to say MSX2+ is too small improvement compared to MSX2. (that is more popular) Also from sound/visual perspective MSX2+ is so close to MSX tR specs that taking the last step is practically more easy to take than stay thinking about coding for MSX2+ -> When you get to speed, it is hard to stop on downhill.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

Imagen del wolf_

10-08-2018, 09:26

I think it's because:

  • High colour screens cost twice the data to store and to copy around. Screen 8 also wasn't very popular in the scene, probably for the same reason.
  • It's actually hard to draw manually with those colour restrictions, not to mention that T&E's Age was very popular back then (screen 5).
  • The high colour screens are good for static photos, which we didn't do a lot with.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

Imagen del wolf_

10-08-2018, 10:07

In addition: somd typical demo effects rely on palette tweaking, like fractal colour cycles and "multilayer" scrolls. That at least rules out sc8 and sc12.

Por gdx

Prophet (3075)

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10-08-2018, 10:42

Also there is no practical drawing software for screen 11/12.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5514)

Imagen del mars2000you

10-08-2018, 11:01

gdx wrote:

Also there is no practical drawing software for screen 11/12.

There is Mous Master : https://www.generation-msx.nl/software/msx-club-gouda/mouse-...

Note: It's Mous Master, not Mouse Master (see title screen !)

There is also Columbus: https://www.generation-msx.nl/software/tencas-group/columbus...

Por gdx

Prophet (3075)

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10-08-2018, 10:56

I meant screen 10/11. Is it better than Screen11 designer?

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5514)

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10-08-2018, 10:58

I don't know.

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5396)

Imagen del NYYRIKKI

10-08-2018, 11:05

Ok, it might be that the 64K modes are not that useful (SC8,10/11,12) but there is still lots of things you can do with them... Actually I think the biggest limitation is inside programmers heads as people are pretty much stuck with the idea that these modes are only half speed and do not see anything beyond that. I bet no one can say that the added scroll functionality is useless since it can be used to free most of the VDP time to do other things... The amount of tools & the generally pretty confusing structure of YJK-modes may anyway be a reason why people don't like to use them.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

Imagen del wolf_

10-08-2018, 11:44

Scrolling is handy, but only partly.

If you play Aleste, then most enemies will be above you, as that's where the danger comes from, and that's where most of the bullets go to. That's great when you have a horizontal sprite limit. MSX2 can scroll vertically, so you don't need a 2+ for that. Horizontal scrolling is easy on 2+ and quite consuming on MSX2 bitmap mode. But even on a 2+, your enemies are likely to come horizontally at ya, and bullets (or whips/swords) will also be placed horizontally next to you. So you're likely to run into sprite problems on 2+ as well. No 2+-scrolling will fix that.

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