openMSX 0.13.0 released

openMSX 0.13.0 released

por Manuel en 01-08-2016, 12:23
Tema: Emulation
Etiquetas: openMSX
Idiomas:

The team behind openMSX have released a new version of their open source MSX emulator that aims for perfection. Version 0.13.0 - Black Cat - brings a few new features and numerous improvements and fixes. Important improvements are much better support for VDP I/O delay in turbo machines (fixing graphics issues due to too fast VDP access there), more accurate MSX1 colour palette, progress reporting for long operations and ALSA MIDI-out support for Linux. openMSX now also runs on GCW Zero.

It's also one of the first releases that drops support for older platforms - and by that we don't mean the MSX computers it emulates but the platforms the emulator runs on. This release is the first to no longer work on Windows XP, 32-bit versions of Mac OS X and the Dingoo A320. If you still want to run openMSX on either of these platforms you'll be stuck on using a previous release or start maintaining these platforms yourself.

Together with openMSX an updated version of its GUI/launcher Catapult was released. This release fixes Catapult interrupting replay directly after loading it, performance improvements while reversing, fixes drag-and-drop for media and contains some smaller bug fixes.

More information and the full changelog can be found in the openMSX 0.13.0 release notes

Relevant link: openMSX

Comentarios (52)

Por tfh

Paragon (1789)

Imagen del tfh

01-08-2016, 12:59

Weird question maybe, but what is the reason/logic for the low version number?
0.13 sounds like a very premature/incomplete version...

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5495)

Imagen del mars2000you

01-08-2016, 13:01

Because you need to wait for version 1.0 to get a GUI Wink

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

Imagen del wolf_

01-08-2016, 13:16

After openMSX 0.99.0, when you think you'll finally get 1.0.0, you'll actually get 0.100.0! And when these numbers get too insane, they'll use openMSX CS1, openMSX CS2, etc. Wink

Por tfh

Paragon (1789)

Imagen del tfh

01-08-2016, 13:23

LOL.. with the speed the version numbers increase, we won't live to see V1.0 I'm afraid...

Por hap

Paragon (2020)

Imagen del hap

01-08-2016, 14:03

If you disagree with the leading 0, just think it away and read it as 13.0

Por snout

Ascended (15187)

Imagen del snout

01-08-2016, 14:12

I think v1.0.0 is reserved for the moment of absolute perfection.

Sidenote: interesting how big an effect a version number can have. Windows going from 7 to 10, Plesk from 12 to 17, not to mention subtitles that are given to releases. Developers who are working with semantic versioning probably recognise the "ok, I made no backwards-incompatible changes, but this definitely is a major version bump!" moment :)

Por ren

Paragon (1219)

Imagen del ren

01-08-2016, 14:34

Congrats, awesomeness, etc. Cool
Ok, explain 'Black Cat' - did you spot one while prepping for release? Smile

Last release Manuel explained they (might) bump to 1.0 when it incorporates a built-in GUI.

Idea/suggestion: show some status info, including e.g. version number when booting up openMSX, next to the status leds or in the top-right or something. You could also display a picture of a black cat then Smile

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9767)

Imagen del wolf_

01-08-2016, 14:47

Tsk, use your imagination. It's version 13, you know, 1 3! Hannibal

Por ren

Paragon (1219)

Imagen del ren

01-08-2016, 15:04

Lol - I just went out, and then I realized.. I feel a (little) bit stupid alright Wink Let's put the blame on.. 'sleep deprivation'.. Wink

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

01-08-2016, 15:44

ren wrote:

Idea/suggestion: show some status info, including e.g. version number when booting up openMSX, next to the status leds or in the top-right or something.

Should be in the title bar of the openMSX window and shown when you open the console and when you do an openmsx -h or -v on the command line.

Por ren

Paragon (1219)

Imagen del ren

01-08-2016, 16:30

@Manuel: yes, thanks, I'm aware. My suggestion was just about something that can be considered a (nice) 'extra'.

Por Vampier

Prophet (2295)

Imagen del Vampier

01-08-2016, 17:02

we took a whole 13 second to come up with that name. Enjoy everyone!

Por TheKid

Paladin (808)

Imagen del TheKid

02-08-2016, 07:25

Small note: The link to the well known website of openmsx doesn't work.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

02-08-2016, 14:14

Quote:

more accurate MSX1 colour palette

the palettes got confused!
e.g. the CF-2700 shows the palette of 75P.

Por niek

Expert (74)

Imagen del niek

02-08-2016, 14:21

URL fixed.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

02-08-2016, 15:47

digging deeper, there is a saturation switch.
saturation 50 turns the 75P back to normal.
the comment said RGB port. but over scart comes a cinch signal. saturation 100 is horribly wrong.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

02-08-2016, 16:49

I'm confused: was the CF-2700 wrong as you said (it has the 75P palette) or is the 75P wrong?

In case you mean the 75P is wrong because it does not have RGB output, then the saturation parameters should be removed from its config file (which will give the default 54%). So if this is the case, I'll fix that for next release.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5495)

Imagen del mars2000you

02-08-2016, 18:38

The Sony HB-75P has 2 RGB outputs : DIN and PERITEL

The same for other non-Japanese versions - for example HB-75D

and all National/Panasonic CF-2700 are without RGB output :

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

03-08-2016, 02:53

I mentioned the CF2700 because I tried some other machine and there the colors were normal.
the 75P was right in the old version, it never looked like the saturation 100 config.
out of that DIN connector comes cinch video and audio. there is a converter cable to cinch connectors.
and out of the SCART connector comes the same, RGB pins unused.

Por Vampier

Prophet (2295)

Imagen del Vampier

03-08-2016, 08:56

So all this work and it comes down to a palette that's not to your liking? That's rather obesssive don't you think? I am sure it might get adjuste to your liking soon.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

03-08-2016, 12:33

hit9918/mars2000you/Vampier: if hit9918 is right and there is no actual RGB output, then that saturation parameter is wrong and should be removed. The 100 saturation only goes for RGB output. I used the Wiki here to find out which machines have RGB output (when I didn't know myself), but apparently it's not 100% correct, if hit9918 is right.

hit9918: is the non-RGB-ness also document in the service manual of the HB-75P? I found a service manual of it, and it says:
Features:
"The HB-55P/75P/75B has an RF connector and a 6-pin DIN-type VIDEO/AUDIO connector for video/audio output. In addition to this, the HB-75P/75B ha an analog RGB connector, so that any type of monitor TV can be connected to the computer."
and
Output interface:
- PAL video output: composite video signal 1 V p-p, 75 ohms, sync negative
- RGB video output: RGB analog signal 0-0.7 V
- RF signal: TV UHF 36 ch
and when pointing to the SCART connector:
- RGB (RGB output) connector (21-pin connector). Connect to the monhitor TV having an analog RGB input connector.

So, it seems that the SCART really does carry RGB signal! And as such, that saturation 100 is fine for that output.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

03-08-2016, 14:42

I am sorry, all the work and then ado about a detail. the background is the greatness of openmsx Smile
I tried PAL vs NTSC machines and thought that the colors of the whole MSX fleet got scrambeled. but in the end it all was just about a machine file.
there is a new parameter to describe the character of whole groups of MSXes, praise openmsx Smile

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

03-08-2016, 15:24

About the SCART I cannot say 100% but 99.9%. I had the 75P via SCART on the Amiga monitor but never saw RGB in my life.
The thing is that the SCART connector includes a cinch video pin. On the usual consumer hardware the RGB pins are not connected and everything comes over cinch.
Well I called it "cinch", that pin has the same signal as on a cinch cable.
There is no subtle guessing about it, it has the PAL distortions and some bad RGB could never come up with those curves.
on my current TV I too got it over SCART and it again goes like cinch.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

03-08-2016, 15:36

Perhaps you didn't have a fully wired SCART cable?

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

03-08-2016, 17:38

that is a good question. it was the same cable all those years.
but if it would turn out that my Sony has RGB and it is like what the emu shows with saturation 100, then I would throw the RGB cable out of the window Big smile
because a beauty was turned into horror colors.
I wouldnt put them in as default if it isnt confirmed that the machine looks like that and that it doesnt have another port.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

03-08-2016, 17:43

It's a matter of what you're used to I guess. But when using RGB, with a TMS9x2x VDP, it is expected you get the saturated colors. See for all details in https://github.com/openMSX/openMSX/issues/1024

Por Grauw

Ascended (8366)

Imagen del Grauw

03-08-2016, 18:02

HB-75P has RGB afaik... at least on mine (there could be regional differences, e.g. French one does but Spanish one doesn't). Not high quality though, as TMS9918 has no RGB outputs there must be conversion circuitry.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5495)

Imagen del mars2000you

03-08-2016, 18:30

According this Spanish forum, there's is no any HB-75S :

http://zonadepruebas.org/backup/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?...

Probably confusion with the MSX2 HB-F9S with RGB output. The first MSX computers Sony released in Spain are the HB-10P and HB-20P, both with a specific Spanish QWERTY keyboard including a ñ key (they are indeed without RGB output)

All non-Japanese HB-75 have RGB output, generally 2 RGB outputs (DIN and SCART), but the HB-75F has only the SCART output (I think it was under pressure of the French government).

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

04-08-2016, 21:40

Quote:

if hit9918 is right and there is no actual RGB output, then that saturation parameter is wrong and should be removed.

it doesn't matter whether there is an RGB port but what is the users real machine experience.
the look of the RGB port is 0% confirmed and 100% of sony 75 PAL users want pal instead a saturation that is even beyond NTSC machines and destroys the color ramps.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

04-08-2016, 22:40

I got this capture pic called bars_tms9929_composite.jpg . I think it is from hap.
it has this orange plot that I get on the real 75P.

       saturationPr 50 /saturationPr 
       saturationPb 60 /saturationPb 

hits the nail of the capture.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

04-08-2016, 22:50

With these settings we tried to achieve the output that is on the best possible video connector. So, the RGB. If you wish to see the CVBS output instead, you can use these settings in your own config. Anyway, we could add the values for other outputs in comments for now.

The capture from hap was probably made on a totally different machine, which may have had different video encoding circuitry... did you actually check that color bars output with your HB-75P next to it?

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

04-08-2016, 23:01

trying to make a setup for bluemsx palette I notice, ah that is the phillips 8020.
available NTSC personalities are
Gradiente_Expert_GPC-1
Gradiente_Expert_XP-800

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

04-08-2016, 23:09

Sorry, what are you talking about now? I don't understand much from that post.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

04-08-2016, 23:13

looking side by side I get
saturationPr 50 /saturationPr
saturationPb 70 /saturationPb
an even more orange plot

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

04-08-2016, 23:14

oh sorry I read your comment later

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

04-08-2016, 23:36

I find it amazing how the two parameters can make it similar to what bluemsx had
and the capture it hit so well seeing it directly on same PC monitor
but it is not such little subtle things that made me start talking palette but the RGB setup is extremely different

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5495)

Imagen del mars2000you

05-08-2016, 03:32

Just for info : I've corrected the Wiki for the HP-75P as the DIN output is actually not a RGB output but a monitor connector with sound and composite video outputs

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3044)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

05-08-2016, 14:22

Just a tip: if the machine has a DIN6 video connector, that's CVBS. If it has a DIN9 video connector, that's RGB. This is documented in the MSX-Datapack.

Por tvalenca

Paladin (728)

Imagen del tvalenca

05-08-2016, 20:54

sd_snatcher wrote:

Just a tip: if the machine has a DIN6 video connector, that's CVBS. If it has a DIN9 video connector, that's RGB. This is documented in the MSX-Datapack.

You mean DIN8, I suppose.

Por hit9918

Prophet (2866)

Imagen del hit9918

05-08-2016, 22:47

Quote:

we tried to achieve the output that is on the best possible video connector. So, the RGB

in the end here is the point of the whole story. "because RGB is the better port".
but if the majority find it ugly then cinch is the better port.

my worry is that it ends up on youtube
see penguin level 2 intro on
JVC_HC-7GB
Philips_VG_8020F
Sanyo_PHC-28L
Sanyo_PHC-28S
Toshiba_HX-21
Toshiba_HX-22
Toshiba_HX-22I

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3044)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

06-08-2016, 01:16

tvalenca wrote:
sd_snatcher wrote:

Just a tip: if the machine has a DIN6 video connector, that's CVBS. If it has a DIN9 video connector, that's RGB. This is documented in the MSX-Datapack.

You mean DIN8, I suppose.

Yes, it was a typo. Smile

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

06-08-2016, 09:20

It is not about ugliness, but about accuracy... We don't have a mechanism now to select the output port, so we emulate the best output port. Possibly that is not correct for All machines now, so input welcome! If you have better values for the saturation parameters, which you achieved by side by side comparison with the best output of your real MSX, then please share these values with us so we can improve the configuration files.

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5495)

Imagen del mars2000you

06-08-2016, 12:04

Maybe these settings should be in an apart XML file. So, it should be easier for the end-user to adjust them to his preferred colors (for example the blueMSX colors).

Por mars2000you

Enlighted (5495)

Imagen del mars2000you

06-08-2016, 14:49

hit9918: the most current simple solution is to remove the saturation line in the config file of the Sony HB-75P (and other concerned machines).

But it's only a temporary solution. I think that the detailed parameters 'lost' in the big VDP.cc source file should be really accessible to the end-user, because everyone has an different experience on real machines, especially for the MSX1 machines with the MSX1 VDP.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

06-08-2016, 18:19

The idea is that each machine gets the right parameters, as I tried to explain in my previous post. But because we didn't have them for each machine, we hardcoded some defaults in VDP.cc. So these values are just defaults, nothing more. These settings only affect TMS VDP's currently.

Por mth

Champion (484)

Imagen del mth

08-08-2016, 15:20

openMSX has a video input selector for switching between internal VDP and GFX9000. Maybe that could be expanded to select between plugs with different color output from the same internal VDP?

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

08-08-2016, 20:59

Probably. We would then have to define which kinds of video outputs are available (usually RF, CVBS or RGB) and a way to select these. And of course it has to be determined which machines have which kind of outputs... And I guess RF would not be supported for now, as we don't have anything in place to emulate RF.

Por mth

Champion (484)

Imagen del mth

09-08-2016, 10:19

How does RF encode the signal? I know it has a luminance and a color component, but is what comes out of the tuner the same as CVBS or different? I guess it would be just PAL or NTSC in both cases, but I'm not an expert in this field. And does the modulation introduce artefacts?

Por tvalenca

Paladin (728)

Imagen del tvalenca

22-08-2016, 18:33

mth wrote:

How does RF encode the signal?

Just add A LOT of noise to the CVBS signal Evil

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3044)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

28-08-2016, 21:28

The openMSX-debugger download link for Mac OS-X seems to be broken.

I'm trying to get a new version, since the debugger 0.9.0-dev12821 I have here seems to have issues with openMSX 0.13.0. It connects fine, but when I select the view->Bitmapped VRAM function, it causes the connection with the emulator to be dropped.

Por Manuel

Ascended (15680)

Imagen del Manuel

28-08-2016, 22:28

FiXato, who is hosting all these builds, is migrating parts of his site, so when the migration is done I'll get back to this.

UPDATE: for the migration the webserver was temporarily stopped. It's working again now so that build should be available again.

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5356)

Imagen del NYYRIKKI

29-08-2016, 00:07

Manuel wrote:

And I guess RF would not be supported for now, as we don't have anything in place to emulate RF.

Trip to perfection is going to be a long road!... Next you need to start thinking about monitor emulation.

http://www.piratehearts.com/blog/2014/03/28/crt-simulation/

ie. Micro64 implements this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1qEP2vMe-I