Tecnobytes is creating a new batch of GFX9000!

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Por Kai Magazine

Paragon (1418)

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26-02-2016, 22:55

None of the original msx1 and msx2 are supported, the gfx9000 has similar modes (even a mode almost identical to screen 2 if I am not mistaken) but those are addons (on the gfx9000 version of the v9990).
in this format (as a cartridge), It would be redundant to duplicate modes that already exist on the msx itself.
Anyway I understand what you mean. The msx3 designers could not have implemented this chip on the msx without support or previous modes.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10564)

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26-02-2016, 23:26

The story goes that when the V9978 wasn’t completed in time for the turboR, they cut out the backwards compatibility features to reduce cost and released it as the V9990 in an effort to recoup their investment, right.

Por snout

Ascended (15184)

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27-02-2016, 00:20

There's not a lot known about this, but if you look at the preliminary V9978 data sheet it's almost word-for-word identical to the V9990 sheet. In both cases the chip is called E-VDP-III and the video modes mentioned in the preliminary V9978 sheet are the same as those that ended up in the V9990. There's nothing that hints at backwards compatibility. Maybe the goal was 'merely' to superimpose V9958 & 78 at some point in time?

Por tvalenca

Paladin (747)

Imagen del tvalenca

27-02-2016, 04:44

mars2000you wrote:

Unfortunaly, this VDP is not fully retro-compatible. If I don't get me wrong, the graphical MSX1 screens and SCREEN 4 are not supported. Initially, there were supported but at a some moment in the development of the card, Yamaha and/or Ascii have decided to remove this support.

I think no one said its fully compatible, actually it was said quite the opposite! That V9990 wipes all the complications by breaking compatibility with TMS VDP... So, I didn't got you.

I've been playing with it for a couple of days and I have to say: it's way easier and way more fun! You'll never will need to use bitmapped modes again unless you want to. There are no limitations, just fun.

And I also have to say: I know you won't support it on BlueMSX, you already said it somewhere, but I think you should.

Por tvalenca

Paladin (747)

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27-02-2016, 04:51

I have read somewhere here that both R800 and V9990 were going to support DMA and have a full 16bit data bus... And probably the only retro compatibility MSX3 would have was the MSX engine plus the V9958, when you switch the R800 you would be "stuck" to V9990 modes, also true for Z80 and V9958.

Por l_oliveira

Hero (533)

Imagen del l_oliveira

27-02-2016, 04:57

I mentioned somewhere that I believe the DMA engine would be placed into the VDP so it could be used to push data from RAM to VRAM.

But SEGA had that idea back in 1987 for the Mega Drive VDP (which was designed by Yamaha with SEGA's money) so I don't think it would be ethical for them to use resources developed for the Mega Drive VDP on the MSX VDP.

Turns out that deciding on that took too long and they lost the opportunity window for the Turbo R release. MSX died, later on, SEGA died too and rest is history. D:

Por PingPong

Prophet (3885)

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27-02-2016, 11:48

tvalenca wrote:
mars2000you wrote:

Unfortunaly, this VDP is not fully retro-compatible. If I don't get me wrong, the graphical MSX1 screens and SCREEN 4 are not supported. Initially, there were supported but at a some moment in the development of the card, Yamaha and/or Ascii have decided to remove this support.

I think no one said its fully compatible, actually it was said quite the opposite! That V9990 wipes all the complications by breaking compatibility with TMS VDP... So, I didn't got you.

I've been playing with it for a couple of days and I have to say: it's way easier and way more fun! You'll never will need to use bitmapped modes again unless you want to. There are no limitations, just fun.

And I also have to say: I know you won't support it on BlueMSX, you already said it somewhere, but I think you should.

Exactly. just think of the hyper-complicated way to set VRAM Ptr on MSX2! you need to set the 16K segment, then you do additional outs to perform the TMS way. This Super Crappy mode is due to maintain the compatibility with TMS and it's bad idea to employ 2 bits of vram address to select write reg/write vram/read vram mode.

the crappy way survived on v9958. slow, complicated, etc. V9990 need to sacrifice at all the old TMS roots in exchange to good architecture and speed.
think another stupid tms feature, the y magic number for sprites used to mark the end of SAT table:
another incredible limitation that require the programmer to check for this magic value and FIX it to avoid sprites disappear on screen.

TMS is full of garbage like this. I consider a bless that v9990 cuts root with this shitty vdp.

Por Kai Magazine

Paragon (1418)

Imagen del Kai Magazine

27-02-2016, 12:24

I did not know any of this. This is very interesting and curious.
Anyway, in order to increase the z80+gfx9000 developer's pool I belive it would be a very good idea to make a z80 version of powerbasic, or an adaptation of turbobasic (z80) for gfx9000.
I would be most grateful, since right now I can only program on z80 with gbasic (which is very slow on z80 and does not have access to p1 and p2 modes) or program on the turbo-r powerbasic version, which allows me to do amazing things, but the idea is to program for z80 in order to avoid the same mistake that was done 20 years ago:
Considering gfx9000 works even on msx1 (with enough ram) the pool of z80+gfx9000 potential users is huge compared to the turbo-r pool.
I could develope very very fast with a z80 powerbasic, and I am sure many developers or homebrew users would become encouraged by the results, and give it a go.
You have NO IDEA how extremelly easy is to make a "metal slug" kind of game for gfx9000 in powerbasic...

So, any takers? (to create a powerbasic for z80 or similar?)
I know it is a lot of work to replace all the r800 commands for z80 ones since the r800 can do things that a z80 cannot, etc. But it would really help to create a new era of amazing software for gfx9000 with much less developement time than in ASM. (I just have to press f5 and in 4 seconds I am testing my code, also, I need use F5 like 100 times in 3 hours to find bugs and solve, test formulas, etc. This would be unthinkable on ASM or C, I could not advance as fast on any other language)

If there is no such luck, could anyone explain me how to use the OUTs from basic to control all the gfx9000 functions?
I have been researching the internet for a few days now, and I belive I must have found 99% of the information on google related to gfx9000 and I found a few basic lists using OUT commands to control the GFX9000 (even to enable p1 mode on g-basic or something similar) and I did read on the manual that all functions can be controlled this way.
But I would need a list of all the outs and their functions...

The third opion would be: can anyone provide me (and whoever who is interested) with the best C compiler used to develope and control the gfx9000?
I found a copule of libraries which have been used in some gfx9000 projects, but I do not know how to use them or which C compiler I should use.
A few working examples which I could retro-engineer would help as well.

As you can see I am very serious about developing for gfx9000.
Now is up to you guys to help, colaborate, or even code in my projects or your own.

I have very nice graphics from engine attepts which ended up working too slow (a full screen double scroll for msx2+ with huge software sprites, which will work completelly smooth on gfx9000, for example) as well as the game concepts, story, some musics, etc.

Anyone interested?

Por Manuel

Ascended (18719)

Imagen del Manuel

27-02-2016, 15:00

The OUTs and their functions: you're then directly programming the V9990, so you will have to check the V9990 application manual to know what they mean. The mapping to the MSX I/O ports are on the MAP.

I just heard (thanks BiFi) that PowerBasic, is a modification of the turboR GT system ROMs. I guess it uses the R800 DRAM mode to replace these ROMs. I doubt it's using R800 instructions, it's mostly using some other nice features of the turboR. I also just heard (l_oliveira) that there's a ROM version of it to run on MSX2.

You heard about a C library for GFX9000? Where? Does it say for which C flavour? (MSX-C or a cross compiler like Hi-Tech C, SDCC?)

Por Kai Magazine

Paragon (1418)

Imagen del Kai Magazine

27-02-2016, 15:41

To read the yamaha v9990 manual was one of the first things I did, and I cannot understand anything.
I just need a few examples of which OUTs I have to use for commands such as COPY, PUT SPRITE, ETC.
I did find commands to change the screen, set scroll, and a copule more... I need the rest.

I did read (on msx banzai) that powerbasic is a modification of turbobasic (basic kun) and someone modified the graphic commands to make it compatible with gfx9000, but it only works on r800. That is all I know.
If there is a rom version which works on msx2, where can I find it?? I am most interested in it!

About the ASM library to be used with C (I said library to be used with c, not c library):
https://www.teambomba.net/gfx9klib.html

Thanks for your help. I will look for that ROM and find a way to use it, if it still exists...

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