spacemanbow & scrolling

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Por norakomi

Paladin (1003)

Imagen del norakomi

26-04-2005, 00:49

question:

Does anyone think its possible to make a spacemanbow 2 ?
and if so, who will help me?

I would like to know as much as possible about the scrolling
in spacemanbow.
Who has some additional info for me?

- spacemanbow uses screen 4
- it scrolls using the horizontal screen offset registers

the farmost left 16 pixels in screen and right 16 pixels seem not te be
affected by the horizontal scroll.
how is this done?

are software sprites used, or are all the characters sprites?
if sprites are used how come they are not affected by
the scrolling?

who can tell me some more, Id really like to make a
spacemanbow 2.

there a so many highly intelligent people constantly on this
site. I know we could make a team of programmers for this
game.

hopefully we will !

cheers,
msx love, Norakomi !

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Por Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Imagen del Sonic_aka_T

26-04-2005, 01:40

question:shoot Tongue

Does anyone think its possible to make a spacemanbow 2 ?
and if so, who will help me?
Yes, it's possible, but no one will help you. Sorry Sad

I would like to know as much as possible about the scrolling
in spacemanbow.
Who has some additional info for me?
There's not much to know, you seem to know most of it already.

- spacemanbow uses screen 4
- it scrolls using the horizontal screen offset registers

the farmost left 16 pixels in screen and right 16 pixels seem not te be
affected by the horizontal scroll.
how is this done?They are affected, on both sides of the screen by the way. You're probably playing it on an (emulated) MSX2+ or Turbo-R on which it uses the scroll/mask function these systems have.

are software sprites used, or are all the characters sprites?
if sprites are used how come they are not affected by
the scrolling?
Sprites are affected by scrolling. You can solve this by adjusting their coordinates though. It's not too much work, but you do have to do this every interrupt though. The bigger 'sprites' are indeed screen 4 characters, you'll notice they don't move as smoothly.

who can tell me some more, Id really like to make a
spacemanbow 2.
So would I, but it's not that easy. And try finding someone that can make proper gfx for screen 4, that's a whole different story still...

there a so many highly intelligent people constantly on this
site. I know we could make a team of programmers for this
game.

hopefully we will !There are indeed, but most of them know it's not that easy to make a game either. Although Space Manbow it not *that* impressive from a technical point of view, it's still more work than most people here are willing to bargain for. I hope you can find someone that's willing to try though... I'm not it though... Sad

cheers,
msx love, Norakomi !
Good luck! Smile

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

Imagen del wolf_

26-04-2005, 01:51

question:

Does anyone think its possible to make a spacemanbow 2 ?
and if so, who will help me?

It's regarded one of the best msx games, one of the few that looks like some console-game, highly unlike Konami's previous shooters.. only a game that eclipses S.M. deserves the name S.M.2 .., I assure you: that's not an easy task.

- spacemanbow uses screen 4
exactemundo
- it scrolls using the horizontal screen offset registers
vdp(19) (horizontal) and vdp(24) (vertical)

the farmost left 16 pixels in screen and right 16 pixels seem not te be
affected by the horizontal scroll.
how is this done?

Are you watching it on an msx2 with v9958, msx2+ or turbo R? The v9958 has scroll-registers and a mask for the borders.. a v9938 can only mask by wasting tons of sprites.. (something Hydefos and Psycho World do)

are software sprites used, or are all the characters sprites?
sprites, software sprites on a characterscreen are not possible.. tho, one can fake a large sprite as being a sprite when it moves as fast as the world scrolls ^_^

if sprites are used how come they are not affected by
the scrolling?

by moving sprites to the right with the same amount you use to scroll the map to the left, for example..

who can tell me some more, Id really like to make a
spacemanbow 2.

Without trying to demotivate you, but Konami wasn't exactly an average company on MSX.. Smile
For S.M.2 (while assuming that (c) isn't a problem .. which it is ofcourse.. but let's assume it's not) you need:
- extraordinary skillful gfx designers. S.M.'s screen 4 gfx easily outrate many screen 5 gfx I've seen. And sc4 is way more difficult to draw in. Smile
- top-notch composer/sounddesigner
- a number of really good programmers
- a cutscene designer (so: no tiles, but still-images etc., for some intro/outro demo)
- a very good map-designer.. unlike other shooters with tons o' bullets, S.M. has craftfully setup paths so that you won't see sprite-flickering. (that's one area where S.M. really differs compared to the Nemesis games)

On top of all: you need a team-manager .. esp. this team-manager is the tricky bit ^_^

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9774)

Imagen del wolf_

26-04-2005, 01:52

(^_^( "Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii t0000000000000000b~"

Por Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Imagen del Sonic_aka_T

26-04-2005, 02:39

^_^

Por mth

Champion (484)

Imagen del mth

27-04-2005, 01:52

From a technical point of view, Space Manbow is impressive as well. Because the game uses so many sprites, it has to switch sprite tables in the middle of the screen. To do this fluently, sprites that overlap the line on switch the split happens should be in both tables. It takes some good organisation to pull this off.

Space Manbow is my favourite testcase for openMSX, because it uses both SCREEN4 and SCREEN5, uses multiple screen splits (mode and sprites), acts differently on MSX2 and MSX2+, and because it's fun to play of course.

I agree with Wolf: making something better than Space Manbow is very very hard. So probably it's better to start with a goal that is more within reach. For example, a vertical scrolling shooter in the style of Aleste is easier to program, but still quite a challenge. If you make such a game, you will have learned a lot of skills that you'll need to make something like Space Manbow later.

Por Sonic_aka_T

Enlighted (4130)

Imagen del Sonic_aka_T

27-04-2005, 02:26

Hmmm... Maybe it's just me, but I think Aleste(2) would be a LOT harder to make than Space Manbow would. Aleste2 particularly is like insanity^27, and then some... I mean, doing a mode split is just about setting two or three registers... A sprite split is even easier, since you usually have a couple of lines of margin there. Like you said, the only difficult part is figuring out how to allocate your sprites through the different tables, and even that can be solved quite easily with some minor trickery...

Well, anyhoo... I'd rather be given the difficult mission of making Space Manbow than the mission impossible of making Aleste2. Having said that, of course Space Manbow is a hella cool game that not any programmer can smack together in a month or two... It is still impressive, sure, but in my opinion it has nothing on Aleste2...

Por Maggoo

Paragon (1195)

Imagen del Maggoo

27-04-2005, 07:07

Sonic: What's so technically difficult about making an Aleste type game ? I mean beside using a lot of sprites, and scrolling fast vertically it's nothing but clever level design, great gameplay, and cool GFX. Technically it's all R23 based, 100% screen 5. It's looking impressive and moving fast but still it doesn't take much tech tricks to achieve it.

What's most impressive in Space Manbow is the multi-direction-multi-speed-multi-layer scrolling (CPU intensive in screen 4), while still displaying a lot of sprites and animating of tiles and big objects. To me, it technically beats most demos I've seen so far. It's something I'd never even think of trying to program...

Por MrRudi

Hero (515)

Imagen del MrRudi

27-04-2005, 11:00

Aleste 2 comparing to Space Manbow is like Pong and Virtua Tennis...

Space Manbow is still an 'impossible' game for MSX...respect to Konami for that.

Por ro

Guardian (4124)

Imagen del ro

27-04-2005, 11:41

how'bout a shooter using Wolf's screen4 streamer (wings?) hehe

Por NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5397)

Imagen del NYYRIKKI

27-04-2005, 11:54

I also think, that Space Manbow is the most technically great game made for MSX2. I was just thinking, that I remember that someone started to work on Space Manbow clone sometime around 1998 I think... I even remember, that there was a playable demo, where you could fly over the 8 directions scrolling backround with Nemesis ship... Does anyone remember what I'm talking about?

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