Modding Cartidges, Diagrams with Stereo & Clock Oscilator ...

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Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3135)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

07-10-2011, 23:31

The datasheet seems to confirm that this crystal oscillator outputs its signal already at TTL levels. That probably explains why it isn't necessary to use the extra TTL ports and the capacitors required by the usual standard 2-pin crystals.

Por Dhampird

Hero (585)

Imagen del Dhampird

08-10-2011, 03:50

"Dantyr",congratulations! Please, take a lot of photos and share here with a link like megaupload or other server.

Hello, "sd_snatcher" i get results about Konami SCC-I Snatcher CLK pins:

-I cutted original bridge track between SCC-I CLK pins 61&62, then i conected oscilator 3.58Mhz CLK signal to PIN62 ,and PIN61 was no conected, result= No SCC-I Sound with Snatcher game.
-After that i conected oscilator 3.58Mhz CLK signal to PIN61, and PIN62 was no conected, result= Perfect SCC-I Sound with Snatcher game, therefore:

img690.imageshack.us/img690/1345/scch.jpg

Then, i should conect the CPU_CLK-IN (pin 62) directly to CPUCLK pin of the MSX slot, right? I am now with 8Mhz, the DRAM cartidge will support that speed? I have to try it and also know the way to load some games in the 128K DRAM with SCROM or ROMLOAD.

Por Dhampird

Hero (585)

Imagen del Dhampird

08-10-2011, 04:24

Hi "ant0niutti", i forget reply you...Tongue, yes i think your hand appear in that photo, right?LOL!
If you wish you can update the CLK signals in msxland.

Por ant0niutti

Master (159)

Imagen del ant0niutti

08-10-2011, 13:29

Hi "ant0niutti", i forget reply you...Tongue, yes i think your hand appear in that photo, right?LOL!

Yes, I´m famous now! Tongue

If you wish you can update the CLK signals in msxland.

Done!

Por Dantyr

Resident (51)

Imagen del Dantyr

08-10-2011, 14:14

Hi,

As promissed, pictures of my mod:

http://imageshack.us/g/820/picture068m.jpg/

Thanks,
Daniel

Por Dhampird

Hero (585)

Imagen del Dhampird

10-10-2011, 22:46

Hello, here is the clock fix for standard Konami SCC cartridge and new diagram for real Konami SCC-I Snatcher.

KONAMI SCC F1-SPIRIT

img812.imageshack.us/img812/7665/f1scc1.jpg

img542.imageshack.us/img542/4350/f1scc2.jpg

SCC sound perfect at Turbo Speed, in this case the F1 Spirit not allow turbo speed, but is normal in this game. Pseudo Stereo Mod also works ok.

KONAMI REAL SCC-I SNATCHER CARTIDGE (CLK SIGNALS UPDATE)

img840.imageshack.us/img840/3556/scci1.jpg

img823.imageshack.us/img823/6816/scci2.jpg

This update diagram explain how separate the 2 different CLK signals on cartidge, we have to cut original track (backside of the cart) between PIN61 (SND_CLK-IN) and PIN62 (CPU_CLK-IN), after that, conect pin 61 to CLK oscilator and pin62 directly to CLK SLOT.
I tested that this mod works ok for SCC-I sound at 3.58Mhz and 8Mhz (Turbo SPeed)
At 3.58Mhz the cartidge works ok also for PIN62 (CPU_CLK-IN) redirection, but the cartidge is not stable if i use Turbo ON (8Mhz) in this case. It seems that the internal DRAM cartidge cant manage 8Mhz, maybe some extra mod will be needed to allow use internal DRAM working at that speed.
I could loaded a .rom into the 128K DRAM using ROMLOAD, works ok when Turbo is OFF (3.58Mhz) if Turbo is ON (8Mhz), then the msx hangs. I dont know if will be possible fix that CPU_CLK-IN to allow Turbo speeds.

Por RetroTechie

Paragon (1563)

Imagen del RetroTechie

10-10-2011, 23:55

I see on each of the above modded cartridges, the audio signal going back into the MSX is cut (I assume to stop it from being mixed with PSG sound, so that you can pull that from the MSX separately), right? And then the SCC sound is output through a separate plug added to the cartridge...

Just wondering: if you do this for a number of cartridges, why not do that modification inside the MSX machine you're using? Like take out a resistor in a strategic place, and put a switch in the back of the MSX. Or just disable mixing cartridge sound with PSG for 1 of 2 cartridge slots? And then add an extra sound output somewhere in the MSX machine, where you can tap the sound produced by a cartridge separately.

That way a cartridge would at most need that clock fix, but you wouldn't have to touch / 'butcher' them otherwise, regardless how many sound cartridges you're dealing with... Think (5x switch + 5x oscillator + 5x audio jack) versus (5x oscillator + 1 switch + audio jack added to MSX machine). Also it would be much easier to 'soup up' that sound output in the MSX machine with things like volume control, amplifier, frequency filtering, whatever.

Por sd_snatcher

Prophet (3135)

Imagen del sd_snatcher

11-10-2011, 00:34


At 3.58Mhz the cartidge works ok also for PIN62 (CPU_CLK-IN) redirection, but the cartidge is not stable if i use Turbo ON (8Mhz) in this case. It seems that the internal DRAM cartidge cant manage 8Mhz, maybe some extra mod will be needed to allow use internal DRAM working at that speed.

You're probably right: the -12 DRAMs are probably too slow for 8MHz. I had some like those on a 7.14MHz machine and they couldn't couple with that speed already, so 8MHz is even worse. I had to change them for -10 DRAMs, but I don't know if the -10 will be enough for 8MHz. Are you using waitstates on the M1 cycle?

Por Dhampird

Hero (585)

Imagen del Dhampird

18-10-2011, 04:54

Hi!, sorry for delay in reply, about:

...Just wondering: if you do this for a number of cartridges, why not do that modification inside the MSX machine you're using? Like take out a resistor in a strategic place, and put a switch in the back of the MSX. Or just disable mixing cartridge sound with PSG for 1 of 2 cartridge slots? And then add an extra sound output somewhere in the MSX machine, where you can tap the sound produced by a cartridge separately....

-Hello "RetroTechie", yes, you´re right, time ago i thought about it. Will be better install a stereo jack inside machine to avoid install a switch in each cartidge, is one of the things that I have yet to be done. Thanks as always for the good advice.

You're probably right: the -12 DRAMs are probably too slow for 8MHz. I had some like those on a 7.14MHz machine and they couldn't couple with that speed already, so 8MHz is even worse. I had to change them for -10 DRAMs, but I don't know if the -10 will be enough for 8MHz. Are you using waitstates on the M1 cycle?

-Hello "sd_snatcher" maybe will be better try any kind of sram conversion into the SCC-I, will be otherwise pending to achieve, also i dont know if the -10 Dram could solve problem. The M1#WAIT was disable in the test.

Por Dhampird

Hero (585)

Imagen del Dhampird

18-10-2011, 06:07

I forget to mention that maybe we could make a list of what/all cartidges that need or not this oscilator fix , for now we have:

*Need to be fixed with 3.58Mhz oscilator if you use Turbo speed:*

- Konami SCC
- Konami SCC+
- Philips Music Module (NMS-1205)
- Toshiba Music Module (HX-MU900)
- Panasonic MSX-Audio (FS-CA1)
- All MSX-Music cartridges (FM-PAC, FM-PAK, FM-Stereo etc)
. . .

*Not need fix, because include their own crystal oscillator for sound:*

- Sunrise's Moonsound (and its clones: ShockWave, Dal Ri Sol)
- Leonardo/MSXpro's OPL3 Cartridge
- Padial's SAN3 sound cartridge
. . .

Please, if you people have Turbo machines maybe you could help to complete that list, for example:

- Midi Pac (i think this cart dont use CLK_SLOT signal)?¿
- Playsoniq (this cart use CLK_SLOT, seems support Turbo speeds, but some people talked about problems with Turbo trying load Megaroms, the "PSG to SCC" tool in this cartidge will work with Turbo speeds?)?¿
. . .

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